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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : PICAXE vs Arduino vs MicroMite...
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9308 |
Just got my latest element14 newsletter thing they send all those with accounts, and on the front page, is the latest Arduino thing, based on an Atmel MEGA chip. Looks to be a 100-pin QFP. Price is pretty horrible, at $72 each. The new MEGA-based Arduino board does have a couple of goodies over the MM chip etc, but everything is relative.  The $72 MEGA board has a speed of 16MHz, so the MM can blow that out of the water immedately. 
I've never really got into or liked the Ardunio boards, cos of their relatively high cost compared to other options on the market. BASIC-Stamp 1 and 2 had the same cost issue, and that is why I never got into them either. When PICAXE came along, it was the best thing since sliced bread, and they also were easy to program, and much cheaper then stamps or arduino sheilds etc. Now with the soon to be officially released MicroMite chip, this has become my new favourite, mainly cos of it's floating point and array(and speed!) abilities over the PICAXE chips, and also the one MM chip can do anything, rather then having lots of different chips with different pin-counts. So, you can have the 28-pin one as a starter for ten, and use the 44-pin one if you need more IO pins - both are VERY cheap alternatives to the other brands mentioned above, to say nothing more of the advanced features of the MM chip. Anyway, what I would like to know is others opinions, and especially their experience with other platforms. I hear other members here speak of the fact that the Ardunio is difficult to program with respect to the likes of MMBasic. Interested in any thoughts and opinions - good or bad, please do chime in with your 2c. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| MOBI Guru  Joined: 02/12/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 819 |
It all comes down to a matter of opinion or preference borne out of past usage. They (MCUs) all have their pros and cons. I got into picaxe and back out of it almost as quickly because of its lack of speed and (at the time) small programme space, also, no decent math capabilities. Once I had mastered the PIC, I almost never used a picaxe again unless I wanted a simple interface to drive yet another home grown i2c device. The MaxiMite is tops in my book, very closely followed by uMite. About the only issue I have with uMite is transferring files to and from the uMite with xmodem. I can understand why picaxe users like their nice neat programming set up with one click of the mouse. I think a big plus for uMite (and maxi) is the ability to write in debug routines to suit the occasion rather than a fixed inflexible debug such as picaxe. Arduino produces a nice neat compiled programme with no need for an interpreter but a body needs to be familiar with C and for the beginner, it is not the easiest to savvy. The Mite series have their own inbuilt editor and the GWBasic like commands imo are easy to read. My shekel's worth. David M. |
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| viscomjim Guru Joined: 08/01/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 925 |
Hi Grogster, I am in agreement with you. I have been out of the microcontroller thing for a while and just recently got back in. I saw something about the soldercore and started playing with it for a project. Somehow (thank God), I found the color maximite and purchased the cg one from circuit gizmos. Set it up and that was it. Hook, line and sinker. I also looked at the arduino and agree with you that the programming is not up my alley. Have been playing with the micromite too and this is the greatest thing I have ever messed with. The only thing that I am jealous of with the arduino is that everything I want to play with, from lcd, keypad, gsm modem, you name it, there is a library for it. All the neat shields from spark fun and ada fruit and a whole mess of others, have a prewritten library for the arduino. I wish I had the talent to study the libraries for these extra cool products and port them to micromite or maximite so that simple calls with parameters would make them work. I hope that with the advent of micromite 28 and 44, more and more people will jump on board and start creating libraries for the massive amounts of hardware out there. One thing about the solder core was that the creators wrote many drivers for products that exist so it was easy (like arduino) to implement them with simple command calls. On another note, (i guess be careful of what you wish for applies), I hope that Geoff can somehow capitalize on all the hard work he has put into this great product. I know all about labors of love, however, this is such a wonderful product that I hope he can somehow be rewarded for all the hours he puts into this thing and keeping it current and relevant. MMbasic is so awesome, having the ability to cater to hardware control with ease, I can't image that this product can't be huge… It's better than any picaxe, easier and "cooler" than arduino, imo, and useable by newbies to experts, fast, etc… the sky is the limit here! Sorry for rambling, but I'm hooked. |
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| hitsware Guru Joined: 23/11/2012 Location: United StatesPosts: 535 |
> rather then having lots of different chips with different pin-counts I like that part of the PICAXE platform. It's so fascinating to me to have a controller on a 8 pin chip. Arduinoese looks enough 'C' like to discourage me. I started with BASIC and see no reason to switch. I do like the Arduino 'sorta' universal pin-out for the 'shields' The Duinomite does me best with the shield being a Fluxamasynth (MIDI synth) combined with MMBASIC and the hardware UART which will run at the MIDI baudrate ......... |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9308 |
Just to be clear here, I don't want anyone thinking I am bad-mouthing any one product - not my intention, and I hope none of you read it like that, I just want to hear others opinions on different things. Just cos I have never used Arduino or stamps, does not mean they are not good for their intended purpose. Hopefully, you all can see what I am getting at, and by no means, do I want to impune anyone else's preference or any company. There - that should clarify the situation, but I just want to make sure that is well out in the open right from the off. 
Yes, I still use plenty of PICAXE chips in their various pin numbers, but now that the uM chip is going to be a reality, I will be using that from now on for the reasons I have already listed.
I actually used a PICAXE 08M2 the other day, to build a server-shutdown timer - the 8-pin device was perfect for that task. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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jman Guru Joined: 12/06/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 711 |
Hi I have been using PicBasic Pro with a few controllers from 8 Pin to 40 Pin this makes the MCU's cheap and easy to use Arduino has the advantage of all those great shields and library's Then Maximite came along and I now have new favourite Jman |
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| hitsware Guru Joined: 23/11/2012 Location: United StatesPosts: 535 |
> I wish I had the talent to study the libraries > for these extra cool products and port them to > micromite or maximite so that simple calls with > parameters would make them work. That's where the Duinomites shine .. Access to Arduino ' shields ' (out of the box) Using MMBASIC .... |
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TassyJim Guru Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6102 |
There will be one less problem for you in a few days. 
The new big button on the right does just that. A few more tweeks to do but it seems to be running well on MicroMite and Maximite. Jim VK7JH MMedit  MMBasic Help |
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| viscomjim Guru Joined: 08/01/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 925 |
Hi Hitsware, The shields do plug up nicely including the circuit gizmo board. However, it's the lack of code or libraries available for these shields using MMbasic that I was talking about. I know it can be fun to write the code yourself and that is part of the learning curve. I have a feeling that may change. |
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| JohnL Senior Member  Joined: 10/01/2014 Location: SeychellesPosts: 128 |
That statement may not be correct, you are comparing apples and oranges. Arduino runs compiled code, MM interpreter. But it would be interesting if someone could run some benchmarks to compare different Arduino platforms to PIC32 MM basic. My main attraction to MMBasic is that I started with Basic in early 70's on PDP-11 with punched cards and progressed with just about everything Basic since then. I have done a fair bit of Assembly in earlier days when the grey matter was younger, have done some C and Python but basic remains most Intuitive for me. New micromite reminds me of Intel 8052 Basic chip from early 80's. Have MikroBasic compilers and development platforms for PIC, PIC32, ST ARM. All fairly expensive to initially get into. It is more structured and requires direct register setup. Supports lots of chips, has lots of Libraries, can include assembly code in basic program and very good for debugging. But not as Intuitive for me as MMBasic. Played with Arduino but can't stand C with {}; etc. |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9308 |
You have a point there. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| hitsware Guru Joined: 23/11/2012 Location: United StatesPosts: 535 |
Perhaps, bizzarly(sp?) I can't grok " libraries " Seems to me that the language needed to call libraries is more complex than just using BASIC to begin with ........ I went through that with BBCBASIC ............ |
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| MOBI Guru Joined: 02/12/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 819 |
Robert Heinlen? How about when you write a routine that might be useful in the future, save it to a folder and then simply cut and paste when you need it again. If you keep your variables "local" you shouldn't have any clashes? David M. |
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| hitsware Guru Joined: 23/11/2012 Location: United StatesPosts: 535 |
> Robert Heinlen? Yea but nowdays even shows up in xword puzzles : " empathize " GOSUB or PROC is alot less abstract than the whole 'libraries' trip (Assuming trying to transcend abstractness to the max) |
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vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
PICAXE do wonders in getting people started with microcontrollers. No matter how fast is an Arduino or a Micromite, a PICAXE-08M will happily continue to log the data from a windmill or managing a water tank. An even smaller device, PIC12F675 will be able to do the same as PICAXE-08M in logging the mill and even an extra operation, but for beginners, a PICAXE will be always the way to go. I'm glad I had the chance to start with them. Yes, I find an Arduino better but I'm not at the beginning of the trip any more. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9308 |
Must agree with you there, vasi. As I mentioned earilier, I looked closely at the stamps and Arduinos, but was put off by price and complexity(in my eyes anyway!) Then I came across the PICAXE via Silicon Chip, and quickly fell in love with them. Now I used them all - from the 08's through to the 40-pin DIL's It is my hope now, that I can port most of the PICAXE stuff to the uM chip as it continues to be developed, this way, I can have one common chip and language for all my various projects. Perhaps that is false logic to some extent(cos everything ALWAYS changes!), but what the hell! Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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elproducts Senior Member Joined: 19/06/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 282 |
I've used them all and the advantage BASIC Stamp had early was the library of code. Then I switched to PICBASIC to save money and run faster plus ADC (which Stamp didn't have). Wasn't a cheap option but well worth the cost. I've since been using the Free open source Great Cow Basic instead because of some the built in library commands and the easy transition to pure assembly for debugging. I tried PICAXE but after PICBASIC, found PICAXE limiting and didn't like paying $10 for a $2 PIC so I never did much with it. Arduino got the professionals involved cause they want C. That is where all the Arduino libraries came from. They all tried to make a $ selling shields. Beginners benefitted because they could just change a few lines and they had a design running. Yet I met many beginners who claim there is nothing better than Arduino but when I ask them to write a small sample of code to read a keypad or drive an LCD without a library, most are lost. Problem with Arduino is its Open Source GPL. So if you design something with it and want to sell it, you have to open source your code. So its been designated a hobbyist platform only. Maximite/Micromite is a nice option and I thinks its the best platform for a beginner to learn the fundamentals. It makes a great training/development tool with MicroMite an excellent path to make a more permanent design that you can actually sell. I've since settled on Great Cow BASIC and PIC as my favorite but Maximite is right there as well. Bottom line is I prefer BASIC of any kind. Best quote I've heard was a new definition of BASIC: Briskly Achieve Solutions Impossible in C. www.elproducts.com |
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CircuitGizmos Guru Joined: 08/09/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 1425 |
"Understand in fullness", water-brother. Micromites and Maximites! - Beginning Maximite |
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| CircuitGizmos Guru Joined: 08/09/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 1425 |
Wow. I come out of the woodwork and all I have to say is from Heinlein... Micromites and Maximites! - Beginning Maximite |
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| Ray B Senior Member Joined: 16/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 219 |
Back in the 1970's or so I discovered the LM555. Wow.... This chip could do so much. Later come great little products like from the UK Clive Sinclair's ZX80 computer running Basic then later in Australia you could buy a Dick Smith VZ200/300 for less than $100 for which you could simply learn through the user groups (read bulletin boards) how to interface to real world digital & analog components. Then we move into the 21st century & microcontrollers which lead to excellent products like the Maximite for which I continue to read this forum every couple of days but have myself now drifted towards the Arduino which more suits my interest in hardware interfacing. I can ebay a Android UNO from Hong Kong for about A$12 delivered within 3 weeks at no extra cost. The range of shields are equally well priced and the range of free code available through the forum is mind blowing. Current development with Android includes interfacing to Ardroid devices like smart phones. Have a look at forward.com.au/pfod/index.html which I've just discovered for an example of what is achievable. As for the comments about "C Coding" that is not really that hard with so many free tutorials around or just take existing sample code & play with it. I accept that MaxiMite & all of its derivatives provide a complete solution for those want something a mini computer with ascii keyboard & larger screens, but for those wanting to get into hardware interfacing micro controllers are the way to go. I won't comment on products like Raspberry Pi but I'm sure they have their place although I've seen some comments on poor accuracy with analog values. Comments most welcome RayB from Perth WA |
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