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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Does MM care about keyboard type?
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9308 |
I guess the old saying can be perverted by me to read along the lines of: "Not all ps/2 keyboards are created equal." I have a Compaq 5137 PS/2 keyboard connected to the CMM. It's current consumption is 50mA. It works most of the time, then starts to give incorrect characters - pressing F key will give you a 6n kind of thing, then a few more key presses and no key works at all. This is a problem if you are editing something, then the keyboard won't work. 
This keyboard seems to work OK on a PC - I tried it on my workshop machine yesterday all day, and it never missed a beat. This keyboard DOES have a few special media type keys on it, like sleeep, volume up/down mute etc. Would they be a cause for concern? So, at the end of the day - should you be able to use any PS/2 keyboard, or should I always only be looking to use the standard ones(usually older), that have no special keys on them? I will try another keyboard, and let you know what happens, but I was just curious if there is actually any kind of suggested/supported vs not-supported PS/2 keyboards. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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donmck Guru  Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1313 |
A little snippet of old info here that may help: http://www.duinomite.com/maximite-control/ Don... https://www.dontronics.com |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9308 |
Cheers, Don. I will keep you all posted on what happens with the "New" keyboard. I think it is just that the CMM does not like the Compaq KB for some reason. Compaq had a habit of being somewhat proprietary for a time there... I used another keyboard via a KVM switch when I was writing most of the code, but now I put a different KB on it to test, NOW it starts to misbehave, so the KB is the focus of my attention at present, not the CMM. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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BobD Guru Joined: 07/12/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 935 |
I have been using a Logitech usb keyboard with a Logitech usb to ps2 adapter with no problems. The adapter was in with the keyboard in the package. |
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| MM_Wombat Senior Member  Joined: 12/12/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 139 |
Hi, I found that if I power the CMM from the usb, then, when using the editor I get the odd 2,4,6,8 numbers adding themselves into my code. It generally happens when I am using the cursor keys. If I power from the 9V Regulated Power supply, I don't have any problems.... Regards Dennis Keep plugging away, it is fun learning But can be expensive (if you keep blowing things up). Maximite, ColourMaximite, MM+ |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9308 |
I'm still having the same problem, although, to be fair, it it nowhere as bad as with the Compaq KB. This one is an IBM SK-8820, which is a standard PS/2 KB with no media keys or anything. 60mA rating. Only happens after about three hours of CMM being on. ALWAYS corrects if I cycle the power. Can others here confirm, that if they leave their CMM's on for more then three hours, that the KB still works OK for them? Wondering if it is a time thing. I STILL think it is the KB and not the CMM, frankly, but I will keep playing around... EDIT: I got about 15 mins this time, then the KB started doing odd things. What happens is this: 1) KB becomes sluggish and unresposive 2) CAPS LOCK always comes into effect, and you can't turn it off 3) F1-F12 buttons no longer work when in forced "Caps" 4) Continuing to press keys results in slower and slower KB response, then the KB starts outputting incorrect keypresses(see original post), and if I keep trying to press keys just to see what happens, the KB stops responding all together - have to cycle power. I will try a good old linear PSU. At the moment, I am using one of those Jaycar 12v 400mA plug-pack things. This should be plenty of juice for the system, but switchmode PSU's can cause all kinds of Mary Hell, so... Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Sir_M Newbie  Joined: 14/01/2013 Location: SwedenPosts: 15 |
Hi I have noticed a similar problem, thought it was just me and my gears. When scrolling in edit mode with cursor keys, it gives me an 8 at random times. Appears at anytime, after five minutes or two hours, and not every press. Always an 8, and I believe it is when using up key. This started after upgrading to mmbasic 4.3 on my cmm UBW 32. Could be an conincidence but the keyboard have been working fine for several months before the upgrade. BR Jörgen Edit The keyboard is ps/2 without adapter |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9308 |
I left the CMM running on a program all day while at work. KB was working fine when I left. When I got home(about 8 hours later) and turned on the screen, image was still what it should be, but KB no longer responding. NOTHING works, not even [CTRL]+[C] Completely unresponsive. Cycle power, and away it went.' However, I can't design a system that uses a KB, which needs the user to keep flicking the power off then on again. 
I will try a 3rd KB tomorrow. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| JonS Newbie Joined: 28/02/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4 |
I have exactly the same experiences with a number of PS2 keyboards, old and modern. Definitely something wrong in there somewhere. Same problems - occasional inserted characters when editing and total lockout - well not total, some keys work but nothing useful so can't save which is the biggest headache. Power off and start again and everything is fine. Makes no difference what CONFIG Keyboard is used. A soft solution to this would be most welcome. JonS - TeamFUZE |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9308 |
Thanks for the post, Jon! 
Yes, I have just tried a 3rd KB, and left it connected for about 30 mins, and now we have the following: Pressing BS(backspace) gives me a 4 Pressing ENTER gives me a 6 Pressing E gives me whatever is the function key you press to repeat the last command. Probably something that can be fixed in a firmware update. I would love to hear from Geoff at this point... Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| BobD Guru Joined: 07/12/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 935 |
Graeme, what type of MM is it you are dealing with? MM, CMM, UBW, CGColorMax? Have you measured the 5 volts to the keyboard at power up and then later after an hour or so? The 5 volts are probably on the slightly low side at any time. If you are using a CMM with a linear 5 volt reg and a 12 volt supply then the reg may be getting too hot. On the other hand if it is a CGColorMax then I'm not sure but worth checking the volts. Note that Dennis (wombat) is OK when he is on a 9 volt adapter but slightly flaky when on a usb. PC 5 volt power supplies are always lower than 5 volts and the MM, CMM design has a diode in there which drops a little more. FWIW I have always used a 9 volt adapter on my MM and no sign of keyboard trouble. Those Jaycar switched mode supplies are noisy. I bought one to replace the power pack on my phone base station and it injected so much noise in the audio that it was unusable. I am using an Altronics 9V DC 0.67A switched mode regulated supply for my MM. Bob |
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bigmik Guru Joined: 20/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2914 |
Lads, If you are using an original CMM then I would suggest trying this. If powering by EXTERNAL supply short out D2 If powering by USB supply short out D3. I would not short out both as this could cause problems if the USB and external supply is connected at the same time This diode would drop between .3 and .5V making the 5V supply a bit on the low side which may be the cause of the problem. If this solves the situation I then suggest either a switch or a couple of links and a shorting jumper to select the MM +5V supply you wish to power it with. regards, Mick Mick's uMite Stuff can be found >>> HERE (Kindly hosted by Dontronics) <<< |
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MicroBlocks Guru Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209 |
In my design i left out the diodes for that reason. Same as the UBW32 does. With the UBW32 i never had problems when an adapter (7.5v, 1A) was used, a few problems as others have with keyboards by using power from USB. Microblocks. Build with logic. |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9308 |
OK, thanks for the posts.
I have been using the exact same Jaycar Plug-Pack all the time BUT during most of the program development, I was running the CMM from a port of my powered KVM switch, so the plugpack never had to power the KB before. This could make all the difference. 12V plug pack on CGCOLORMAX1. Today, what I will do, is swap the Jarcar plug-pack for a regulated linear supply capable of an amp or so, and see if the problem goes away. If the Jaycar plug-packs are as noisy as you say, then this could well be a problem, especially if you put another 100mA or so of load on it for the KB power. I'll start with a different PSU, and see what happens. @ JonS - What PSU are you using? It would be useful to know if yours is switch-mode plug-pack, or linear regulator... Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9308 |
Well, from what I can see, the linear regulator and transformer based plug-pack does seem to give much better results. I have only had one crazy character, and was able to backspace it out, and then type the correct character again. I'll keep you all posted. Would still love to hear back from JonS, as he seemed to be having the exact same issues. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9308 |
Just another update - I left the system running on the transformer and linear regulator plug-pack all night, and everything seemed fine the next day. I have put the IBM KB back on it for testing(last night) - this one was one of the KB's giving me issues a day or two ago, and it also seems fine, when powered from the tranny and linear regulator arrangement. Ahhhhh, good old linear technology - still has it's place. 
At this point, I think I can chalk the keyboard issues up to the Jaycar switchmode plug-pack introducing noise as pointed out by another member here. I would still like to hear from JonS - how are you getting on? Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9308 |
Just a little update for this thread: I've been leaving the menu program I have written on-line over night for the last few days just to monitor it on the bench. Still having the odd KB issue - NOTHING LIKE BEFOE, but just the odd one or two issues every now and again. This morning, for example, KB was doing the same odd things - totally wrong things coming up on the screen, like 6's for enter, and dashes for G's etc - like the keyboard map is totally screwed up. Interestingly, this time for a test, once it started doing that, I waited for about two minutes without touching any keys, then tried again, and everything was back to normal! 
Not sure what that means, but I will check that again next time(if there is a next time) the KB does odd things - just give it a little time before pressing any more keys - don't keep pressing keys, as this certainly seems to piss the MM KB handler off if you do it!
I'll keep you all posted on any developments. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| VK2MCT Senior Member Joined: 30/03/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 120 |
I have a theory about keyboards probs ?? Ps2 keyboard is connected to MM by 2 wires, a CLOCK wire and a DATA wire. (OK - alos a power supply wire and an earth wire). The keyboard pulls the clock and the data wires low when sending keypresses. When there aren't keypresses the keyboard floats these wires (the keyboard is capable of both sending to a computer or receiving from a computer, but for the MM comms is strictly Kboard to MM). The PIC32 has what are called 'weak pullups' which can and are activated. I've read in a few places that som PICS within batches have flakey 'pullups'. So I'm thinking that possibly a CLOCK wire (or/and DATA wire) might not be held to a high enough voltage. An ambiguous high frequency CLOCK signal (intrduced from power supply or RFI or mains hum) could keep the MM very busy receiving junk 'phantom keystrokes'. Also depending on the timing of the CLOCK, the keyboard could think it needs to light lights, or reset etc. So if anyone is game, then i suggest they try temporarily clipping a resistor (4.7k maybe) between regulated 5V and the CLOCK pin on the track side of the MM keyboard socket (Also try the DATA pin). Keyboard should stay plugged in of course. Again it's just a theory and no warranty is implied. John B VK2MCT |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3802 |
Are the internal pullups used? On my DuinoMite there are true pullups to 5V using 4.7K resistors. John |
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| VK2MCT Senior Member Joined: 30/03/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 120 |
On the mono MM i have, there aren't external pullups. The 'weak pullups' inside the MM are enabled by MMbasic as part of the keyboard init code. John B VK2MCT |
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