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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : (MM) Maximite, Linux, Minicom and Xmodem.
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ColinT Newbie  Joined: 26/08/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 10 |
My first post, and I hope not in breach of the usage guidelines. I've just fired up my first Maximite - all well - but I'm a long-term Linux user. Since most MM forums are M$-centric they're of little interest to me, and I thought this forum might have others like myself. I reflashed the BASIC to version 3 using an old copy of XP, but now that it's running under PCLinuxOS I need to get things configured. I'm using Minicom, which brings back fond memories of Telix, and can offer connection advice if anyone else hasn't got there yet; but Xmodem transfers don't work, and I need to fix this. Minicom invokes two external binaries - rx and sx - that handle X, Y, and Zmodem transfers, and using --help lists their commandline switches. Minicom has a configuration dialogue for them, and inserting appropriate switches should do the job. However, I don't yet know what they are. If anyone else has already solved this I'd be much obliged for the info; otherwise I'll post my findings here, and if anyone else is willing to cooperate I'd be grateful for the assistance. And some they will, and some they won't; but with some it's just as well. |
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TassyJim Guru  Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6098 |
What errors are you getting? You might start with putting a delay between packets if that's an option. Start with 20 to 50 ms delay and see if that helps. Jim VK7JH MMedit MMBasic Help |
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| ColinT Newbie Joined: 26/08/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 10 |
Thanks for the reply. None - just nothing happens. I invoke XMODEM SEND or RECEIVE in BASIC, then trigger the appropriate Minicom transfer, and both just sit there until I Ctl-C them. My guess is incompatible protocol settings, but I've little knowledge of either. And some they will, and some they won't; but with some it's just as well. |
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| Greg Fordyce Senior Member  Joined: 16/09/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 153 |
Colin, Give moserial a try. I've not used it with the MM, but it is quite good for this sort of stuff. Your distro should have it in its repository. Greg |
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| ColinT Newbie Joined: 26/08/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 10 |
Not in the repo, and never used git, tho' I've heard of it. Found git in the repo, installed it, invoked #> git clone git://git.gnome.org/moserial and all downloaded OK. Tried invoking the script and got an error message: #> ./autogen.sh --prefix=/usr ./autogen.sh: line 9: gnome-autogen.sh: No such file or directory The script looks rather curious: #!/bin/sh # Run this to generate all the initial makefiles, etc. srcdir=`dirname $0` test -z "$srcdir" && srcdir=. PKG_NAME="moserial" . gnome-autogen.sh There's no "gnome-autogen.sh" in my PATH - still working on this. Sigh! The old circular backstep as so often with the early stages of anything Lx - one step forward, two steps back, one step forward two ... And some they will, and some they won't; but with some it's just as well. |
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| Greg Fordyce Senior Member Joined: 16/09/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 153 |
You've discovered why Linux is losing the open source battle to Windows.  It would appear that Linux is for people who like to work on their computers and Windows is for people who like to work with their computers. Funny, I used to say the same thing 10 years ago about windows vs mac. 
When I encounter problems like this I try and find a distro that has my required software in one of its repositories. In Ubuntu a simple "sudo apt-get install moserial" is all you need to do. Having to many custom complied programs means you have to do it all again when you update your linux install and since most distros update every 6 months, that's a lot of wasted time. 
Greg |
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vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
I'm using gtkterm for serial communications. Sometimes I use CuteCom and even minicom, but none will work if your kernel can't detect and load the correct driver for your device. The last kernel of my linux does not work for devices which need a node like /dev/ttyUSB0 or /dev/ttyACM0 etc.. but the previous kernel does the job well. [quote]...and since most distros update every 6 months, that's a lot of wasted time. [/quote] Is even worse with a distro which update continuously (Debian Testing, ArchLinux, etc.). But now, both Ubuntu and Mint distros have a long term support(LTS) up to 5 years. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| ColinT Newbie Joined: 26/08/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 10 |
> Linux is losing the open source battle to Windows. Windows is open source??? > It would appear that Linux is for people who like to work on their computers and Windows is for people who like to work with their computers. Only if you want it that way. My working install is now over three years old, stable as a rock, handles all modern file formats thanks to a few choice package upgrades, and far more versatile and customized than any M$ installation could ever be. I'm still using KDE 3.5, the zenith of Desktop Environments IMO, and I've a selection of several other distros in the dozen partitions on my first HDD; the second is for my data. Lx is often wrongly maligned for reasons that apply mostly to script kiddies; mature users can and do use it far more effectively than any proprietary distro, and for this I'm quite willing to undergo the occasional uphill push to advance the state of the art and my own knowledge. I'll take a look at the other terminal options; thanks for suggestions. I've been tempted to rebuild another Gentoo install, and this might provide the necessary push. And some they will, and some they won't; but with some it's just as well. |
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djuqa Guru Joined: 23/11/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 447 |
IT is the "Open Source" nature that is killing wider adoption of LINUX. I was an early user of linux (kernel .89) so what version / distro do I use now? NONE Exactly why I don't use it. Windows has some problems with compatibility across XP,Vista, Win7 But LINUX has so many distros, versions, GUI's, Filesystems that it can be a nightmare just getting a good collection of Apps & related utilities to work. I can turn on my laptop confident in the fact that My Win7 Home premium is the same as someone else's Win7 install. LINUX needs to be open source for the contributions from all over the world. BUT There needs to be a tighter control on the Number and diversity of versions. Being Open source does not mean ANARCHY and No STANDARD VK4MU MicroController Units |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
@djuqa, I know what you mean. From this point of view, is hard to offer assistance, applications, tutorials, etc. in Linux world. But the kernel is the same everywhere, and also some libraries became already a standard. Qt is working great on all major operating systems (Eagle is using QT) so, some how, we have a set of applications available not only on Linux, but also on Windows and Mac. It can be done. And as a programmer, you can impose some standards around you. Yes, it needs someone to make some order but, who can offer guaranties that no other strange and irreparable effects will appear? But again, the computer is not used by everyone for the same reason... The solution is cloud computing and a web operating system on netbooks. But not for me, I'm not a sheep. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| ColinT Newbie Joined: 26/08/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 10 |
> Being Open source does not mean ANARCHY and No STANDARD I'd take a different line of argument. If anything, the Linux/FOSS world has been both a driver and supporter of PUBLIC standards, far more so than the proprietaries, and for obvious reasons. I'd suggest that what's been missing in the LFW is a lack of top-down discipline. For those of you not so acquainted, any school of design offers two main approaches; bottom-up and top-down. The former starts with the bits and pieces, and attempts to build them into a preconceived goal; the latter starts with the intended outcome, and works down to the individual components. As anyone who's tried will tell you, either on its own seldom produces an optimum outcome; a judicious mixture of each is the key to the best result. By its very nature, FOSS tends to be anarchic, and there is certainly a place for this; but at the end of the day, some sort of over-arching order must be either adopted or enforced, and the lack of this is what's now threatening the whole FOSS enterprize. A great pity should this eventuate. I've been hoping for some time now that the Elders of the FOSS movement might discern this need and use their reputations and deserved authority to impose a higher-level discipline on the movement; so far there's no evidence of this. And some they will, and some they won't; but with some it's just as well. |
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| mookster1 Regular Member  Joined: 10/06/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 81 |
Hey ColinT I'm a Linux user as well and I use minicom to do XMODEM transfers with the Maximite, and I have managed to get it to work. In order to get XMODEM transfers to get through (it's incredibly finnicky but it does work when done exactly the right way) is to initiate the receiving end (I think) first. To get a file from the 'Mite to the computer, you just have a long pause in front of the SEND command, then run the XMODEM Send command: PAUSE 15000
XMODEM SEND filename$ Note that the pause is to initiate the receiving end (in Minicom open the menu, hit "R" I think for receive, and just wait until the Maximite sends the file over.) In order to send a file to the Maximite just do everything the other way around i.e. initiate the Maximite to receive first, then send. I'm just going by memory here because the last time I had to do this was a couple of months ago but I hope this helps. Capacitance is futile - roll on 2012! |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3801 |
I'm unconvinced. Android is basically Linux in disguise and is doing quite well. And I've helped friends and family endlessly struggling with Windows (drivers stopping working, no driver at all when moving to a newer WIndows, corrupted apps, registry problems, horrific slow-downs, OH BOY DOES THE LIST GO ON AND ON). A couple of them have tried Linux having got so fed up of the problems with Windows and both have stayed with Linux (they're not geeks, not even vaguely). Their main apps are Firefox, OpenOffice and some image (photo) handling. They just don't have much more they want or need. Now I can well imagine you wanted a lot more software, as I do. I've found it far far easier since I adopted Linux, because it's fundamentally so stable. Having no registry has been a big plus as I can blow stuff away if I wish or upgrade or whatever and nothing breaks. Because it "just works" I don't upgrade or reinstall Linux at all often. Usually only when I get a new machine, and then I choose a slightly out of date version so it has settled down. I do not do any kind of 6-monthly changes. No need. That said, I've done a bit of kernel work on a separate test-bed LOL But that's all it's used for. I've no idea what apps are on THAT laptop. (Enough to rebuild kernel from scratch.) John |
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| Greg Fordyce Senior Member Joined: 16/09/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 153 |
Don't get me wrong, I love Linux, Ubuntu is my preferred distro. It has a large repository of software that can be installed at the click of a mouse and their ppa system means developers have a way to get their apps to the end user. I use this to keep my kicad install bang up-to-date. But it is worrying when developers of projects like the MM choose not to support linux. I am not criticizing them for their choice, I suspect that it comes down reasons like this, I recommend moserial might be an option, ColinT goes to the website and only finds the source code. Where's the binary?
This is where linux is losing out to windows. Until the focus starts to change more towards making linux just work and not worrying quite so much about keeping everything open source it's going to struggle. Just look at the MM. It hasn't been open source since version 2.7, we are now at 4.0. I was a bit worried with the change, but development has gone on just fine, people are still contributing and the project goes from strength to strength. I agree with what JohnS said in the previous post, Windows isn't perfect, don't use the latest cutting edge version of linux, etc., but for now I am going to use my windows 7 netbook for MM development. It saves me time and if the MM gets better support in Linux, I will be first to use it. 
Greg |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3801 |
Any of the common distros will have serial apps (terminal emulators) such as screen, putty, gtkterm, minicom or picocom and they should be easy to install if not already there. It's a few clicks on mine (Mandriva). No need to get the source if you don't want to (I didn't). If moserial isn't in a distro, just choose another app! Mine came with a few pre-installed so I didn't have to install one at all (but had a play cos I'm a geek). Windows no longer comes with one at all and as you no doubt know there's no one way to install such a thing. Sometimes you can google, and find a ZIP. Sometimes a RAR. Or an MSI. Or EXE. Compared to a few clicks on Linux it's actually harder on Windows but people just accept it because they don't know any better. Treat a Linux distro as "install and leave it alone unless you must do something". You really cannot do that with Windows!! I did not even have to install any drivers to be able to use the DM. So, as I did not have to install drivers or serial app there was no work required for the MM / DM guys to do in order to support Linux. It worked as soon as I plugged it in. The lack of MMBasic source is a problem any time you want to add some C (such as for CAN or Ethernet) and means I dropped it. (I'll use my DM straight from C. It means I won't be contributing any sample Basic apps or any C to extend MMBasic's features because I'm not writing any.) John |
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MicroBlocks Guru Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209 |
MMBasic source is availabel with only some restriction to protect the maker. It can be requested here: http://mmbasic.com/source.html. I think additions and enhancements will be welcomed. Microblocks. Build with logic. |
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| ColinT Newbie Joined: 26/08/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 10 |
> In order to get XMODEM transfers to get through ... Hey, many thanks for the tip. Will give it a try and report back. Am still fiddling with analogue stuff. And some they will, and some they won't; but with some it's just as well. |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3801 |
Restrictions - no thanks. John |
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| Greg Fordyce Senior Member Joined: 16/09/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 153 |
If I decided to only use strictly open source stuff, I wouldn't get much done. Shame to miss out on the MM experience because you don't like the license. Greg. |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Guys, quite explanatory. Read also the comments. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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