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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Wow! Arduino counterattack!
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vasi Guru  Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
See the article here! This is Arduino Due, with Cortex M3: 
Vasi Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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elproducts Senior Member  Joined: 19/06/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 282 |
The 32 bit battle is on. Via chipKIT PIC32 can run Arduino code and also be programmed to run MMBASIC, TRS80, Pinquino, Mikroe and more. Maximite brings many older BASIC programmers back in the game. The Olimex boards take this further with multiple platform compatibility. Question is: Will the ability to use Arduino Shields, Maximite Shields, No PC required Maximite/TRS80 mode all sharing the same hardware be a big advantage? I think so but only time will tell. Duinomite boards are listed on the Olimex site but no pricing or pictures yet. www.elproducts.com |
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| Ray B Senior Member Joined: 16/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 219 |
I wonder where Geoff as the original developer of MMBasic benefits from all of this and then there is the valuable contributions from other high level programmers like Gerard, now there work can be plagiarised for possible commercial gain by "others". Can I just send a big vote of thanks to all of the contributors to this forum for their contributions to the public domain.  RayB from Perth WA |
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donmck Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1313 |
Production boards in about 1 to 2 weeks, then we will have a few photos. Cheers Don... https://www.dontronics.com |
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Dinosaur Guru Joined: 12/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 311 |
Hi All now there work can be plagiarised for possible commercial gain by "others". You mean like MaxiMite to DuinoMite ? One of the dangers of "Open Source"It is always a race to see who brings out the best board the quickest. Loyalist will wait for MaxiMite V2 others will react to their need and buy the one that suits them most.
Regards Regards Hervey Bay Qld. |
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| Ray B Senior Member Joined: 16/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 219 |
In my previous post my comment "plagiarised for possible commercial gain by "others" was not meant to refer to any of our contributors to this forum and especially DonTronics & HamField, I consider them part of our local supply chain especially with the perceived poor performance by Altronics is supplying then putting a price increase on their kits. Go for it Don... RayB from Perth WA |
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| aargee Senior Member Joined: 21/08/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 255 |
Who were you referring to RayB? Could I be cynical and suggest that Open Source does generally mean grab as much money as you can by third party merchants? Sounds rough but that's how it is, for Arduino, Maximite, whatever - business is not charity. That's why Don's ads are everywhere and he promotes Dontronics and his Maximite website everywhere/when he can - he's in business. All the third party producers are busy getting their products out there before the Maximite 2 comes out... wow just like Apple! This is the way of things when you decide to go down this path with your intellectual property, personally I'd much rather see partnerships with the IP owner to bring products to market. Doing that while maintaining open source would be the challenge (eg 'free for personal use...'). I don't think Geoff is really interested in this aspect and is happy enough to have it out there in the public domain with no strings attached. Sometimes I wonder why Glenn lets a lot of almost raw advertising posts onto the forum as well! Ultimately though, without this sort of enthusiasm, from us as hobbyists, from Dontronics, Hamfield, Altronics, etc as suppliers and Glenn as host of the forum we would probably all start to give it up as a bad joke and all a bit too hard. This is the Maximite community and this is how it is... - Rob (still having fun). For crying out loud, all I wanted to do was flash this blasted LED. |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Hi guys, Here you can see the Arduino business model. Play the movie (or fast forward it) up to the 2:50 time slider and there is a sketch. Against this model is the DIY model. The businessman's hope that the DIY phenomena will not affect too hard their model (blinking eyes at all producers involved  ). So, there are some aspects on Arduino, making it a little harder for DIY, as:
- the small size of the board (which means bigger and ugly DIY shields if you can't SMD). Here, the breadboard boards are the solution (the business model is still involved here if you want a fancy PCB for your board). - the special "key" of the standard Arduino connector, making it harder for veroboards (still, here are some corrections as features from different producers but are not standard so you can't come up with a platform-universal veroboard shield of your application). Also, a little business model is viable also for DIY guys able to supply CNC or chemical manufactured (but also veroboard) boards regarding to their projects. Arduino, Maximite/Duinomite, etc., are first development platforms on which anyone can develop public domain or commercial projects, at their choice. ________________________ BUT! Having a prosperous business model (Industrial manufacturers or DIY'ers, whatever) like this you need to promote the platform, to make it accessible to all social categories, to help in creating a large community which in exchange will promote your board as a base for all imaginable projects, assuring a long life to your development board and implicitly to your business. This is what Microchip finally understood from Arduino movement (the PIC24 ADK kit is a change in this direction regarding the way Microchip will produce their developments boards and I refer to an increased configurability rather than a specific standard connector...). Development boards ready to be used also as final application products. But you know, creating a community takes time, effort and sometimes even money... Vasi Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Yes, we can say that. But I also see it as a manifestation (finally!) of the original concept, Arduino being an hardware abstraction. This is ending the war fans (well, we must admit that this involve a quite higher IQ). Of course, as a "third party" producer of such a platform, you need the full support from a quite affordable and popular microcontroller manufacturer. So, the affiliation is inevitable. I see Arduino Due intensely used by the "original" Arduino community for the realtime applications (expect fantastic projects here) as the psychological barrier introduced by PIC32 regarding to the very small erase/write cycles is hard to overcome. For the PIC32, interpreters and embedded systems running in RAM area are "the salvation" - but in my opinion, the producers will really need to come with much lower prices. Vasi Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| elproducts Senior Member Joined: 19/06/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 282 |
I believe he's referring to me since he replied right after my post and also bashed me in an earlier topic that I just come on here to market and don't contribute (though I don't know of a single book I wrote that I've marketed on here). Reference here if you care: http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3779&KW =elproducts Apparently he doesn't put me in the "contributer" category even though I posted how to use Maximite with a simple low cost Microchip board. http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3581&KW =elproducts And helped Don towards shaping his interfaces to Maximite for more mass appeal and promoted the whole Maximite thing at Maker Faire Detroit to many users who had never heard of Geoff's great work. Or maybe I just took the title too literally for him when I posted about Arduino or chipKIT in a forum titled Maximites, Picaxes and OTHER MICRO CONTROLLERS! www.elproducts.com |
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Keith @ Senior Member Joined: 19/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 167 |
elproducts maybe you are right maybe you are wrong maybe he is maybe he's not maybe you are maybe you're not maybe I see it maybe I don't this is a forum there are many opinions, much bias, much to gain, nothing to loose! next topic please! The more we know, the more we know we don't know ! |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Still, the Arduino Due image from the first post is beautiful (surprisingly, the Arduino team knows how to make Arduino boards  )! They took two good things from Chipkit boards:
- a better position for Reset button; - a better microcontroller (this was long time requested by fans). Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| Ray B Senior Member Joined: 16/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 219 |
No I was not even thinking of you and since you have joined you have become a valuable contributor. My reference to others taking a commercial advantage was actually in relation to two considerations: 1 . Recent attempts from China to get into this forum - I recently spent a month in China and are aware of them being great copiers of other persons efforts & I expect to see a ebay version on MaxiMite not to far away. 2. I've been following the arduino developments (thanks Vasi for keeping us all up to date) & I'd not be surprised to see a future version of arduino marketed as one of their features the ability to run a version of MM Basic. Don't get me wrong about ardino I think it is a great product with a lot of publically shared code. My original post if persons care to read it was actually praising and thanking Geoff and the like of Gerard etc for there unselfish efforts especially when you get the likes of me pushing them for other features after Serial & I2C like 1Wire. Thanks again contributors. RayB from Perth WA |
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| elproducts Senior Member Joined: 19/06/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 282 |
Ray B, I apologize for my assumptions and I appreciate your clarification. I agree that Developers like Geoff don't get their fair reward. Geoff and others like him are the true heros to future generations of electronics hobbyists and professionals. It amazes me how much time people will put into a project and then give it away for free as open source. But some of those projects eventually grow into a big business (Linux for example). Having said that though I wouldn't blame Geoff one bit if he charged a fee for the next update to MMBasic. That's an old fashioned business model. Give away the original and charge for upgrades. We all have bills to pay so who would blame him. What is most interesting about the open source market to me is it appears that the biggest promoters of it are also the biggest sellers of others work. Sparkfun and Adafruit made videos promoting Open Source while becoming million dollar businesses in a large part due to the success of the Open Source Arduino. They both have added some of their own limited success open source designs that are add-ons but there are a lot of software developers that helped make Arduino a success who never made a dime for their work. Now Atmel and Microchip are directly involved in this Arduino project so is it still open source or it becoming a big business? Its very interesting to watch and be a part of. This is why I can't blame anybody from getting involved (even for $$) with Maximite in some way and bringing Arduino/Maximite together as it makes it easier for future generations to connect with old timers like me who learned programming on a BASIC Computer. www.elproducts.com |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Massimo making fun Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| ArtBecker Regular Member  Joined: 25/08/2011 Location: PhilippinesPosts: 47 |
The first post above, about new Arduino hardware and software, was very interesting. I eventually found where arduino 1.0-rc1 was posted, and downloaded it. Massimo Banzi just published a new 2nd edition of his book "Getting Started With Arduino," so I immediately bought it. I then found out that the very first example in the new book, the traditional "Hello World!" equivalent, gives an error message, when used with arduino 1.0-rc1. Not a good start. ========== // Example 01 : Blinking LED const int LED = 13; // LED connected to // digital pin 13 void setup() { pinMode(LED, OUTPUT); // sets the digital // pin as output } void loop() { digitalWrite(LED, HIGH); // turns the LED on delay(1000); // waits for a second digitalWrite(LED, LOW); // turns the LED off delay(1000); // waits for a second } sketch_sep20a:1: error: conflicting declaration 'const int LED' arduino-1.0-rc1\hardware\arduino\variants\standard/pins_ardu ino.h:47: error: 'LED' has a previous declaration as 'const uint8_t LED' ========== Besides all examples in the book that now incorrectly attempt to define LED as an integer, there are various other examples that don't work with rc1, either. All of them work OK under the current 0022 version of the IDE, which will no longer be supported, when 1.0 is released, in less than 30 days. The new book uses arduino 1.0-beta1. I assume Massimo tested all the examples under beta1. Unfortunately, between beta1 and rc1, there have been changes, which now give error messages, when many of the book examples are attempted. Many examples in the very popular 1st edition of the book won't work anymore, either, under arduino 1.0. Yes, it is a simple matter to change LED in the examples to something like LEDD, or LED_L, but it gets more complicated for some of the other problems. How is any newcomer, who buys the book, to learn about Arduino, supposed to understand what is happening? They would rightfully assume that the new book they just purchased would not be full of problems. Yes, I can continue to use IDE 0022, when going through the book, but I assume newcomers will be confused, since the Arduino software download page says that older versions of the IDE are no longer supported. I can't figure out why the Arduino team would pre-define LED in the first place. I tried to contact Massimo. This is a problem that should be addressed, before thousands of his new book are sold. I attempted to go to the web site that is listed for him, on the home page of arduino.cc, but the web site listed for Massimo never responds. You would think that the official Arduino home page would have his current contact address, but it doesn't. The O'Reilly web site, where I bought the book, lists a gmail address, but my message there has gone unanswered. I posted a thread on the Arduino forum, a few days ago, but there has been no response to that. I eventually found that Massimo is a forum member there, but my PM to him there has also gone unanswered, and he is currently active in the forum. |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Definitely that is an important issue. You can comment on Arduino Blog which is maintained by someone which can get to it. Or on Arduino forum. Don't try to contact him by PM, I guess his box is full. You can reach more easy to one of his partners and that is enough. If you make a lot of noise, then you can get a result. Which one, I can't tell. Vasi Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
This is the robot Arduino is cooking: http://youtu.be/x9RMdtOf30k Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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