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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Programming languages.
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
I've been programming in some form of the BASIC language since high school, around 1980. At the time there were other languages like Forth, Fortran, Cobal and later Pascal, but BASIC was easier to use, so I stuck with it. Microsoft was quick to embrace BASIC as its main offering to its users, so I soon moved to BasicA, GWBasic, QBasic, and then kicking and screaming into the VB world. Then in the mid 1990's MS developed ASP using VBScript, its just like VB but on web pages instead of forms. ASP is what this forum uses. I've used ASP ever since. MS then introduced VB.net and ASP.net. I hate them! Dont see the point, a big change in programming style for no gain, I can do anything in ASP that can be done in ASP.net. And many agree, which is why ASP is still in common use 10 years after MS dropped support for it. I develop intranet applications as part of my income. These are like internal business web sites, and use ASP for the "server side" stuff, like getting records from a database, uploading files, etc. And I use VB-script for "client side". Client side is for things like form validation, changes to the page based on user input, without calling a new page from the server. Client side VB-script is supported by Internet Explorer, and in a controlled office environment, you can make sure everyone is using IE. But, VB-script is not supported by the other browsers, like Firefox or Safari. Instead, they have support for Java-script, which is also supported by IE. I dont know why VB isnt supported by these other browsers, maybe a license issue, or just a anti MS technology attitude. Its a shame. Anyway, with smart phones and tablets becoming common in businesses, I need to rewrite big parts of my applications to be cross browser compatible, that is, run on all browsers, not just IE. This means porting the client side VB-script to Java-script. For a VB programmer, Java is a big change in programming style. VB has a shorter development cycle, as its a easier language to understand and has many functions built in. A classic example is checking for dates. In VB, we can check if a valid date has been entered using the isdate(x) function. It returns true or flase, and understands different date formats, time, etc. Java has no isdate compatible function, instead you need to use a collection of other commands to strip apart the string, test for valid numbers, days in month, leap year, etc. Not a big problem, you just write a few functions and include them with the program. Works, but its messy and lots of extra code from a VB programmers point of view. Another big change is case sensitivity. VB isnt case sensitive. IsDate(x) is the same as isdate(x). Same with variables, T1 is the same as t1. But not Java, case is everything. So something like document.form1.t1.value is not the same as document.Form1.t1.Value . So its been a learning curve. I growing from a Java reader to a Java programmer, and despite the annoying differences, I'm enjoying the experience. Plus it means my intranet applications are not dependant on browser, which is a good thing. And there is a great deal of Java support on the web. Would I give up VB. No, its still the faster language to develope in, and in a office/workshop environment, MS rules, so I can always count on a Windows server to host the intranet application. But for the client side, I'll now use Java instead of VB. Java is universal, and it means a user could be on a Apple, Windows or Linux PC, and have no problems using the system. So I was wondering, what other languages are used by members? And how have they changed over time. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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vasi Guru  Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
I started with Basic Spectrum on CP/M and ZX-Spectrum. Continued with GW-Basic under an 8088 computer. A friend of mine initiated me in Turbo Pascal 3.0 for CP/M and from then, Turbo Pascal was my main programing language regarding to general programs. The best was Borland Pascal 7.0. All software pirated. Then I started a painful migration to Turbo C and then, I had my first Slackware Linux 3.0 on CD-ROM mainly for gcc free compiler (from then I hardly tried to rely only on free development chains - partially succeeded). I never did the right things from the first time regarding to strings in C language and always screamed after my beloved Pascal. Started to learn Borland Delphi but always ended using Borland C++ Builder as there was a good solution to my problems with strings. Today, both are huge, slow and bloated and on foreign hands. Borland is no more. For Delphi, there is a free, cross platform alternative, consisting from freepascal compiler and Lazarus visual builder. For a C++ Builder alternative, the best one is Qt package from Nokia - did some applications and liked a lot. The only thing which make me hesitate, is the size of Qt library for Windows - the client have to download it. But there are other GUI cross platform libraries... For databases, I learned and used DBaseIV, FoxPro3, Paradox3.5 - I miss very much the text interface from MS-DOS times. In linux, I used MySQL and PostgreSQL - I like more the last one. For web, I learned PHP and developed my own CMS - only to learn that it was easily hackable. Then I switched to sNewsCMS development and had a lot of fun. Don't have time for web development anymore, as all my sites are now on google and wordpress.com. Today, I play mainly with microcontroller programming (Basic, Pascal, C, Lua), not much PC programming. At the end, jumping from a language to another, does not bring too much good, but a lot of stress and the need to have the book reference of one language or another in front of you every time. Not always worth it to keep up with news in terms of programming ... Don't follow my example, choose a language and stick with it. Also, if you don't develop commercial software, try to stick with only one Operating System if possible. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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crackerjack Senior Member  Joined: 11/07/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 164 |
Earning my living as a software developer for over twenty years, I have seen many "flavours of the month" come and go. I've worked in many, many languages and environments over the years; from ZX-80/81 BASIC (on which I cut my "programming-teeth"), through COBOL on Mainframes, and across the spectrum of languages and O/S's right through to the current crop of offerings such as C# and VB.Net, Ruby, Processing, PowerShell, whatever. At this point there are few languages I wouldn't have a crack at since it really boils down to syntax and a reference to the relevant libraries to get the job done. I find "scripting" languages the most enjoyable, probably because of the "instant" feedback (pretty much what you get from a quick MMBasic program). Python, Javascript (with helpful libraries like JQuery and JQuery UI, of course) and even good old Batch/Shell Scripts (DOS, or better still, bash) are great and useful. AWK (really gAWK) remains one of my most useful "power tools" when working with text. There are two oddities that stand out in my mind regarding Programming Languages however: 1) I really enjoy MMBasic on the Maximite - to me it feels like a return to basics (no pun intended) and when programming really was fun; 2) I never quite became capable in assembly language for any device despite working briefly on some IBM Mainframe (IBM 390) Assembly (BAL) - talk about cryptic! I have looked at PIC assembly and it leaves me cold, bewildered and befuddled - all those seemingly extraneous MOVLW's and MOVWF's?. I am currently enjoying(!) learning assembly for TI's quite fantastic (in my opinion) MSP430 series. Right now, I think there has been such a splintering of languages and such a pointless proliferation of complexity to achieve not much more than was being done 15 years ago. I don't write code directly for a living anymore - thankfully - but I will always love making the machines do what I need through some sort of code or another. |
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djuqa Guru Joined: 23/11/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 447 |
Started programming 1976'ish using EDUC8 and NatSemi SCMP 1977 6502 Assembler Game development (amusement machines TAITO Aust.) Z80 assembler / TRS-Basic 1977 TRS-80 Cobol / Fortran / Basic IBM370 Mainframe. 1979 1981 8088 Assembler / Basic IBM pc 1983 68000 Apple Lisa USCD Pascal <<< Radical machine 1985 Commodore Amiga AmigaBasic / Apple Mac Basic 1983 Turbo Pascal 1.0 (8086 & CPM version) 1983 - present Lots of Pascal, Delphi, Oberon development 1984 - 1989 Translated Lots of dBase applications to REAL languages. 1985 C++ and Java 1987 4GL Language Progress - Wang MiniComputer (I developed MultiUser Accounting software) 1999 - present Virtually ever Scripting language used for web development. 2011 Maximite Basic - Woohoo Simplicity with POWER. My favourite language ? No Contest - PASCAL. P.S. All Hardware with exception of the Wang & IBM370 was my own and ALL software was fully licensed. I have spent an absolute fortune over the years. We are so lucky we can buy great computing power for so little these days. and f VK4MU MicroController Units |
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boss Senior Member Joined: 19/08/2011 Location: CanadaPosts: 268 |
I started in 1973 as researcher using SPU800 assembler (TTL based CPU) BASIC 8080/8055 assebmbler ICL1905 - ALGOL 60 - FORTRAN IV PDP11/04- Assembler PDP11/34- RT BASIC PDP11/ FORTRAN ZX xx Basic CP/M Pascal 8052 Assembler, INTEL 8052 Basic PC Turbo Pascal Qbasic VAX C, Fortran ALPHA C, Fortran Maximite MMBasic ARM Cortex M4 ELua and my favorite language - Fortran, RT Basic |
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| loki Newbie  Joined: 23/12/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 7 |
Programming since early 80's - Z80 assembler - PC assembler - PC batch file - Pascal - C/C++ - VB - C# In my job (Federal Govt Department) we all use C#. Have just finished writing a utility in C# that our database guys will use to process report data for end users. Favourite language: C# (everything is so easy with this language. The .Net framework provides alot of help to the application developer). It's less verbose than VB. Many Microsoft applications are now written in C#. It's the main language used internally at Microsoft (along with C++). A MS trainer told me that Microsoft would like everyone to use C# so they could ditch VB, but because of user demand they won't do that. |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Can anyone tell me god and bad things about C#? Is worth learning it? Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3804 |
Traditional Algol-family (so, not for example, a functional language). Very like Java in terms of overall features etc. Arguably only exists because Sun and M$ fell out over Java. Fairly simple object model, not a very high level language but somewhat more than C. Automatic GC (garbage collection) etc. Some weird things (name a language with none LOL). Was / still is rather M$ owned/dominated & they abused the standards process via ECMA as I recall). Not real-time (not that MMBasic is!). Generally semi-compiled i.e. to a byte code then interpreted but there are also JIT compiler(s). Mono project may be worth a look if you want to escape M$ John |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Thanks John, I will think at it before jumping in.. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| ernie Newbie Joined: 18/03/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 14 |
I learnt BASIC and C at school, and some assembly languages. Taught myself Perl and SQL which I quite enjoy. My current interest is in Lua, specifically eLua for embedded micro-controller applications, as it seems very fast for an interpreted language. Still looking for good books on Lua. |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Glenn, any experience with VB.Net regarding Metro applications? I'm starting to like Metro against Android on touch devices  !?!
Vasi Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Hi Vasi Very little experience with VB.net. Like many developers, I was turned off by the whole .net thing, and have stayed away from asp.net and vb.net. I tend to use Just BASIC for applications, but will fire up VB6 from time to time to work on a application I developed long ago. For the web stuff I still use classic ASP, its still very popular and well supported, not bad for system that's nearly 20 years old. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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lewist57 Newbie Joined: 07/01/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 6 |
I went from Fortran to Basic to assembly language, and have managed to skip over C, C+, C++, and C#, even today. With that said, I have had every version of Microsoft Visual Basic, from 1.0 to 6.0 (they saved the best for last). Effectively, Visual Basic for Applications (VBA) which is built in most Microsoft products is the ghost of VB6. I resisted switching to VB.NET, because I could not comprehend what object oriented programming was, and why it was 'better' than the old way of doing things. It took a few months of beating things into my head, but have been working with VB.NET for a few years, and actually prefer it over VBA or VB6. Love Visual Studio 2012, and even invested in some programming add-ons from Syncfusion. |
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MicroBlocks Guru Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209 |
Z80 assembly, TRS 80 Model I Basic Turbo Basic for PC Turbo C, Visual Basic 1.0 - 6.0 C# Many others in between like Cobol and many versions of C, never liked C++. The Vb.net was for me much to awkward in its syntax. As i always liked C i took the step to learn C#, never looked back. Microcontrollers mainly C and MMBAsic. :) Microblocks. Build with logic. |
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