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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : How to look for an apprentice....
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9936 |
Hello everyone.  I am currently 52, and looking towards my retirement come 65, and with that in mind, I have lots of things installed in many places, where I HAVE documented all the technical stuff, but I am now looking to perhaps train up an apprentice, who could take over from me, in the next 10-15 years. I have a really excellent candidate in mind, who is FEMALE - a teenager currently - but she shows very excellent ability with code, understanding PCB layouts, and fundamental comprehension of the systems as they currently sit. This is cos she has accompanied me for a few days now, as "Work Experience" in the field. She has kinda dazzled me in terms of how well she understands things, and yes - I have linked her to this forum. She is only 17 though, so very young, and so I am wondering HOW I should evaluate her at a technical level. I am 52, so old enough to be her father, so I have ZERO interest there, but I really admire her technical abilities. What members here have had experience with training apprentices? GIRLS specifically. I feel she is a good candidate, but I have no idea what I am doing in terms of training an apprentice, and the USUAL process is BOYS go into this field more then girls do. I plan to give her some code from some of the systems I work with, and then get her to explain to ME.....how she thinks the code works. Here is the simple code I plan to present her with, and have her tell me WHAT it is doing: ' OPTION EXPLICIT OPTION DEFAULT NONE DIM B%(19)=(00,02,10,09,15,16,17,22,21,23,24,25,07,26,18,06,05,04,03,14) DIM X% FOR X%=1 TO 19 SETPIN B%(X%),DOUT NEXT X% DO FOR X%=1 TO 19 PIN (B%(X%))=1 PAUSE 200 PIN (B%(X%))=0 PAUSE 200 NEXT X% LOOP This code simply sets all the I/O pins as outputs, then sequences through them, to check that all the connections from the PIC32 chip are intact using LED's on a test rig. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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Mixtel90 Guru  Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 8769 |
If she is sufficiently interested then you have an easy life. Young people soak up information like a sponge, all you need to do is to demonstrate the skills and she'll pick them up purely because she is interested. The ability to program and knowing how to program in a particular language are two different things though. SCRATCH will teach programming as it develops reasoning skills. After that, using MMBasic to implement those skills is a possible next step. Engineering of all kinds isn't just for the lads and hasn't been for some time now. She'll very likely be an excellent apprentice. :) Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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Geoffg Guru Joined: 06/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 3356 |
One thing that you do need to do is keep her on a good salary with frequent increases, even if they hurt you. Young people accelerate rapidly and you don't want to lose her to a well paying job after all the training and effort that you put in. Geoff Geoff Graham - http://geoffg.net |
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| matherp Guru Joined: 11/12/2012 Location: United KingdomPosts: 11215 |
Also, if she is only 17 and joining direct from school, consider continuing education - day release or whatever works in NZ to get her some formal qualifications. |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4304 |
As it's work experience I guess she's still in school (or college)? If appropriate in NZ, is university something she can do / want? If so, she'll have to realise she may be bored due to knowing stuff others don't - depending on the course. If she might go into business instead, she'll "just" need practical business skills to go with computer stuff. Probably too soon to have any definite answers to the above but maybe she'll enjoy thinking about them. John |
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| PhenixRising Guru Joined: 07/11/2023 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1849 |
What's not been addressed, thus far, is that right from the get-go, she's in-line to be captain of the ship. This is huge because working under a bunch of idiot managers totally sucks and so she won't be enticed away. My experience with female employees has been very positive. I hired a young lady, Mel, to build control panels and talk about fast and neat and surprised me when she wanted to know what these things did. I agreed to hire her two female cousins and they were the same. When it came time to power-up a new machine, there were three of us who could handle the debug and setup of the servos. Mel would observe, ask all the right questions and proceeded to take over  I promoted her to service tech and out of six techs, she was the only female. If I had call-out to a machine that was under warranty, Mel was the first choice because she liked to analyze the root cause and would never just randomly swap-out components, in the hope that the problem would go away (unlike the guys). The only down-side was that she was a mother and more and more manufacturing was shifting to Mexico where everything happens in slow motion and so a day-trip would easily turn into a week. |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 5859 |
Maybe I am stupid, but I would aks her what her vision is. That will be a teenager vision, and yes, it can change in a whimp when there is a lover on the horizon.. Not unlikely for a 17 year old... Just talk about your age, and the possibility for her to grow to finaly take over the business. You think she has it in her, and discuss the way to get there in 10 years. And yes, if she is interested, the moment (in 5-7 years) she becomes in the lead will hurt you. But I see that as "growing up", as all people at age will experience. The student surpasses the master. You are sooo lucky to have found someone to continue your business. Many are forced to stop without succession. Volhout Edited 2026-03-11 21:32 by Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| zeitfest Guru Joined: 31/07/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
SAAS (software as a service) is already the commercial norm now. And AI is going to quickly revolutionise both IT and higher education delivery, no matter what. She would be better to do some uni comp sci and then some internship at a large IT corp, at least for two or three years while the air clears. Apprenticeships have gruellingly low wages for a long time. A school leaver/uni student with aptitude is going to learn fast [and will learn more IT in a course] and is not going to use/tolerate MMBasic for long. Edited 2026-03-12 04:38 by zeitfest |
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| dddns Guru Joined: 20/09/2024 Location: GermanyPosts: 821 |
My older daughter did a very short internship at the age of 17, got her bachelor's degree at 20, and her master's degree in biomechatronics at the end of 23. I can't tell her anything anymore. She only understands MMbasic by looking at it. So make use of the short time you have :D |
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| toml_12953 Guru Joined: 13/02/2015 Location: United StatesPosts: 602 |
Her gender should be irrelevant to the way you train her. Treat her just like any young, bright student and be thankful you found one who's interested and capable. I've trained students who are interested but had no technical skill at all. They managed to grasp the concepts through sheer force of will and their determination helped them become proficient. I've also had students who could have had a brilliant career but had no interest. These were the toughest to teach. They were just there to get credit toward a degree. You are fortunate to have a person who has both the interest and ability. Treat her well and she will always look back on her time with you with fondness. One of my greatest joys is when I run into a former student who says I inspired them to become what they are today. May you have a similar experience. |
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| tgerbic Senior Member  Joined: 25/07/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 111 |
I used to hire techs and technical writers/teachers. I find those that have hobbies in related areas, or more complicated hobbies, tend to do well with learning, problem solving and keeping up with tech. They are often personally compelled to do it and enjoy keeping up with the hobby. It is not a job it is an attitude. I remember looking for a technical writer in the early 80s to reverse engineer new MODEMs products and then write alignment procedures, troubleshooting guides and installation guides. From there, they would become telecom/datacom instructors. I might go through twenty pre-screened candidates with tech certificates or BSEEs degrees to find one. The best writer and later instructor I ever found was an S-100 hobbyist that worked for an S-100 board company. He had to troubleshoot/fix boards and write drivers in assembly. Nothing to do with telecommunication products, which had a lot of analog circuitry, PLLs and discrete chip phase decoding. It was the practical knowledge of electronics and the ability to think through a problem by deciding how something should work and then applying it to the problem. He also knew how to effectively use test equipment and which end of the soldering iron to hold. I have hired women and have found that they are not much different from hiring men. Again it is attitude and the ability to picture how things interact. Someone that loves the tech outside of the job will generally do well. Those that just do a job for a paycheck have a tough road ahead. My concern in your case is that the person will excel and outgrow the business you are in and ultimately leave for something perceived as more exciting. One thing that might help is letting them get more personally involved with the products such as designing new devices, enhancing/modifying products, or being responsible for code changes and bug fixing on one or more products. The feeling of being responsible for something, or excitement of designing something new may provide a sense attraction to the business. |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9936 |
Wow - lots of replies! Thanks for all the input. I will read all this a couple of times to make sure I take all the suggestions in. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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NPHighview Senior Member Joined: 02/09/2020 Location: United StatesPosts: 218 |
You might be surprised at what girls can do! * I'm married to a great girl, now 72, who is a retired veterinary pathologist (that's a DVM and a PhD) who has spent her career doing cancer research for human medicine. She is one of the pioneers of monoclonal antibody technology for therapeutics and biomarkers. * We have a daughter who is OK, too. She has a PhD in molecular biology from University of Chicago, and is doing pharmaceutical R&D. * Our daughter-in-law has a PhD in medical device development from Carnegie-Mellon University in Pittsburgh, and is currently working on projects in Nigeria and London. * Our daughter's mother-in-law has a PhD in Physics, and has taught college-level physics for her entire career. * Our son's mother-in-law is a retired attorney in the Seattle area. Those little scamps! You never know what kinds of mischief they'll get into. Live in the Future. It's Just Starting Now! |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9936 |
I'm actually pro-female for any of the trades normally dominated by men. That's one of the reasons I accepted her for some work experience. There are plenty of boys wanting to get into this kind of thing, but not so many girls, and we need more women in the trade. I know one female electronics technician who is really excellent at what she does, and also one or two female sparkies(electricians) who are ALSO really good at what they do, so there is no reason that they can't do well in these areas. The female technician could run rings around the men when it came to VCR faults - she knew VCR's better then any of the men. You cold give her just one or two fault conditions, and she'd be able to say EXACTLY where the problem was, across all the major brands of VCR. Quite impressive. I trust you all remember what a VCR is! I think the problem is either lack of interest, or they are criticized for wanting to go down that path, as it is "Not a job for women.", and that kills their enthusiasm before they have even done much training or had any encouragement. Sexism, basically, at the end of the day. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| dddns Guru Joined: 20/09/2024 Location: GermanyPosts: 821 |
With the utmost respect..Adafruit Industries |
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| DaveC5 Newbie  Joined: 24/09/2025 Location: United KingdomPosts: 34 |
Hi, I've taken on an apprentice at work several years ago, and am aiming to take on another this year. My experience is UK-only, so this not be relevant to New Zealand. I arranged my apprentice through a UK gov-approved apprenticeship scheme. The scheme both approves the apprenticeship courses run by the local college (or nearest running a suitable course), and also provides funding support. At the time, the college fees were paid (it being an approved course) plus there was an incentive of up to 2k GBP to the company. For that the company had to guarantee the time away for college attendance, plus a certain amount of on-the-job training. There was a vetting process for us as well (i.e. safe working, not offering a bulls**t apprenticeship as an excuse for cheap labour, genuine offer of employment on completion of the apprenticeship) The college effectively runs the apprentice, and was responsible for vetting us, monitoring progress and reporting to us how the academic side was progressing. They were top-notch in that respect. The admin overhead on us was minimal. The plus side is that after 3-5 years, depending on the course, the apprentice leaves with a legitimate, recognised qualification. As an occasional recruiter, I have a lot of time for candidates who have been through part-time ed. The risk of an apprentice leaving after your investment in their training is very real. But it could happen anyway, apprentice or not, and I don't think there can be any guarantees for you in that respect. After 7 years with us, 4 as an apprentice, the chap left. It left me with a gap to fill amongst my team, and I was undeniably disappointed, but not in any way resentful. Personal life changes were the biggest part, and I remain proud of the fact that the guy became a great technician and we had played some part of it. I have no qualms about looking for apprentices in future. My 2 pennies-worth on the non-technical aspects. If the NZ gov have similar approved apprenticeship programmes then see what they can do for you. Cheers Dave |
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