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Forum Index : Other Stuff : Poly pipe along a fence line, tips?
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Hiya I've run a 400 meter length of 13mm poly pipe along a fence line on my place, from a little solar pump down at the creek all the way up to my house. In the past this pipe was lying on the ground, not near the fence. Bit of a problem, if the grass was short the water was near boiling point by the time it reached the house with the midday sun, plus it was in the way when I needed to mow the grass. So I've run a new length along the fence line, so I can mow the grass without worrying about slicing up the poly pipe. The question is, do I run the poly pipe along the ground, or tie it to one of the fence wires up off the ground? If its on the ground, the grass will soon cover it, so less heat build up, but it could still get damaged if I whipper snip the fence line. If I tie it up, then it wont get damaged, but its exposed to the sun. I guess been up off the ground, the bottom of the pipe will radiate some heat absorbed from the top of the pipe, but probably not enough to avoid steaming hot water. So just wondering if anyone has any experience with this? Trenching the pipe underground is not an option. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| greybeard Senior Member  Joined: 04/01/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 161 |
Turn your water heater off and swap the hot and cold taps. |
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TassyJim Guru  Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6098 |
Pump into a storage tank to give it time to cool. That's what we had to do when getting water from deep bores a few 100 k west of your place. Jim VK7JH MMedit MMBasic Help |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Yeah do that Jim. I have a 5000L tank filled with creek water, use it for washing car, watering garden, etc. Most of the time the water from the creek pump is feeding a sprinkler to green up the lawn. The water sprayed from the sprinkler nozzles has cooled down enough by the time it hits the ground. Its still warm water, but wont kill the grass. But I would also like to water some tree's, and this is the problem if the water is too hot, it kills the ground and tree. Made the mistake twice! So I was wondering if a pipe suspended a foot of the ground would heat up as much as a pipe laid on the ground. Plus if there is a "dont tie pipe to the fence because of reason X", from someone who knows better than I. Maybe the cows will try to eat it, or something like that? Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
if pipe is exposed to the sun and the water is stationary and under pressure it can burst the pipe. Poly pipe has a heat derating graph, I guess you could find a spec sheet on the internet if your interested, it will easily get to 80C laying on the ground with no cover. it also moves a lot from expansion. if the pipe is not constantly pressurised you can do what you like, the only reason they are buried deep is to attempt to prevent damage from fire, farm equipment and vehicles (and livestock). I have laid both PVC and poly over rocky ground and a very shallow trench and slight mound works well. Some other places I have just mulched over a temporary pipe with a bale of hay or two. I think a pipe that is under 4-5 cm of dirt with water running through it has every chance of surviving a cool fire. Not sure about hanging it on a fence I would be worried about it kinking or rubbing a mark on the pipe and creating a weak spot. My biggest problem is plastic gate valves that leak and imperial joiners that fail. if you are using gate valves with s/steel balls and metric pipe that the joiners grip the outside of the pipe it is far more reliable and also cheaper. I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Fire damage is not really a concern, more of a inconvenience. See I scored 2.5km of the stuff, so have a lot spare. I would like to dig it in, but 400m of rocky ground with tough grass has turned me off the idea. If I were to hang it off the fence, I was thinking of taping it every half meter to the 2nd bottom wire, so it effectively hangs from the wire. I might just leave it on the ground under the fence and see how it goes. I've whipper snipped under the fence so the pipe should get covered in new grass in a few weeks. I wonder how may times in the future I'll jump because I think its a snake? Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| joebog1 Senior Member Joined: 07/11/2015 Location: AustraliaPosts: 114 |
Black cable ties not tape :) I have a friend that has poly pipe strapped to the fence wires. He keeps the place clean, so theres no grass around it. The pipe runs the whole length of his runway ( hes a temporary aussie, with a solar powered house) Its been there 5 years and its only thin wall pipe. The cows dont eat it, the fence doesnt rub it, hes the local fire warden so he hasnt had one yet  The water does get bloody hot though!!Joe |
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| yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
I guess you could tie a bit up on 2 metre gaps and see how it looks. I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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| TassyJim Guru Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6098 |
If you do tie it up above ground, it will still get hot. I am not sure if the cooling breeze will make enough difference. It should do something. You will have to use lots of ties or the pipe will sag - a lot. Some cows really love poly pipe and any plastic. I think they like the texture more than the taste. I use to fill an old bath with a garden hose but the buggers kept eating it. They also ate the plug. I recently made the mistake of leaving a coil of 25mm in the paddock. They only ate the end. My neighbour has a 350 metre run of 50mm on the surface beside the fence. It will make life interesting when the time comes to do some brush-cutting. I think he is hoping I will offer to dig a trench for him. I would prefer he gets hold of a tractor with a poly layer. My digger is a little one and wouldn't like doing the bit beside my trees - too many roots. At least my trees shade the pipe. Jim VK7JH MMedit MMBasic Help |
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| joebog1 Senior Member Joined: 07/11/2015 Location: AustraliaPosts: 114 |
HHmmm I think if the poly is strapped to the fence the cows wont eat it. TassyJim is correct with the number of ties required, but they are cheap enough I guess Tie wire is an alternative I suppose and even cheaper if more hassle to employ Best of luck Joe |
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| Georgen Guru Joined: 13/09/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 462 |
Use rocky ground to your advantage. Every rock dug out can be used to cover poly pipe. Sounds stupid, but it can be done. I know 400 metres is daunting distance, but doing one metre a day is just over 13 months. Do little bit at the time and start from house end. This way hot water will be able to cool down a little bit by the time it reaches outlet. I would try to use rocks to build some kind of line on top of poly pipe, without touching it. I would put rocks the way, that they do not put weight on plastic. The best would be to score the land by say 30 mm and then use rock to cover it. Another little helping thing, you could try to mist-spray poly pipe say last 5, 10, 20 or even 30 metres. You would sacrifice a little bit of pumped water, but evaporating water would in turn cool down the pipe a little bit. If you can bring temperature down to 40 deg C it will not kill anything. Last thing, maybe as suggested in previous posts, pump todays water to tank and use yesterday's water from another tank to water plants. And above all have some luck with good outcome. Edit: Had one more thought You could probably pump at night, but it requires chargers, batteries and the works that are expensive and if unattended can go for a walk. George |
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| greg199 Newbie  Joined: 03/11/2015 Location: AustraliaPosts: 39 |
Since you have grass then I suggest you lay the poly pipe on the (rocky) ground and then cover it with soil. Hopefully you have soil somewhere on your property. Covering it with say 100mm deep by 400mm wide should protect it - especially when the grass grows over it. One wheel barrow of soil should cover a couple of meters of your pipe. And think of the great exercise you'll get. |
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| isochronic Guru Joined: 21/01/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 689 |
How about covering/insulating the pipe ? |
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| paceman Guru Joined: 07/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1329 |
Bit slow seeing this thread Glenn but what about painting it white - not after you've strung it out but when it's still a coil it wouldn't take so long maybe?  There's a big difference in temperature using black absorbers versus white ones. Not sure what sort of paint you'd need but someone out there must know what to use on poly. |
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