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Forum Index : Other Stuff : Best welder
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Wombat Regular Member  Joined: 27/05/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 72 |
A lot of you guys have welders out there that are put to good use. I'm looking at buying a welder for myself and have had little experience using one. I like the new electronic types as they should be easier to use than the old stick welders. How reliable they are is another question! My needs are not great as 3mm MS would be my max. If it could do aluminum as well, that would be a bonus! Gas vs gasless, electronic vs transformer (copper only), wire feed vs stick... Something that won't overheat and cutout every 10min. Price, obviously depends on quality, but seriously needs to be a good unit, (and small) as I only want to buy 1 welder. I'd like to know what you guys have/use and what you think of what's available out there today. The sooner I can get the 1 ton of battery's off the floor, the happier I'll be! My garage is full!!! Russ  |
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| Georgen Guru  Joined: 13/09/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 462 |
Wish you lived colse by and wanted to spare some batteries. Brand new units are so expensive. George |
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| brucedownunder2 Guru Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
Good question ,Russ.. I've a big 15 year old MIG welder . It's big ,on wheels and well built with the gas cylinder sitting on the back.. rental of the cylinder is huge ,$170 odd per year.. plus the gas -approx $70 per cylinder. So, you can see , it's for blokes making stuff for a living (tax deductable). I'm retired, just use it for wind gennies and solar tracker steelwork. I have used gasless wire, it's ok, but not as good as the argon gas welding ,I think. So, really , it comes down to how much you are going to weld,, and . of course, your pocket expenses. Really, if you are friendly with someone you know with a gas welder ,it's the way to go ,borrow it when you need it and pay for the gas and time you use it. I'm coming to the end of my "welding things" life , so I reckon this will be the last rental ,,then it will be gasless wire. Bruce Bushboy |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Bit of a double up on the post Bruce, so I deleted one for you. My little mig would be about 25 years old now, it keeps poping the 2n3055 transistor that drives the feed motor, but apart from that its been a good little unit. I converted it to gassless many years ago, the cost of cylinder rental is just plain stupid. A bottle would last a couple of years befor refilling was needed, and the gas is cheap. To me, when the rent of the container is 100's the cost of its contents, then thats just criminal. Anyway. Gassless is OK for hobby stuff. You can get good strong welds, and they can look OK once you wire brush off the flux. But the cost of the flux cored wire is much more than gass wire. Once I used my brothers welder, its gas, and I was amazed how much easier and better the weld looked compared to gassless welding. If you've mastered a gassless welder, then gas is a dream. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Wombat I have a number of welders but the most useful is a little inverter 150 amp thing from feabay for less than $100 it welds 1.6 to 3.2 mm rods which covers most hobby work as for duty cycle it goes at 50% and have never hat it drop out on overheat, it seconds as a useful battery charger for 12 and 24 volts. I have a Lincoln 250 amp generator welder gor heavy work but now it collects spider webs also a 250 amp mig that I seldom use now and a universal 200 amp AC DC plasma cutter at 50 amps Tig Mig but it seldom gets use, as I find the little Inverter welder the most convenient to carry and use and it will work on the end of a 30 meter extension lead, my transformer 150 amp welder as converted to a battery charger cause it was always going out on overload after a few rods. My money is on the little inverter as it is cheap and does 90% of the things I want to do but will not weld Alloy. The cost of gas in a non commercial workshop is prohibitive so the high tech welders are seldom used gas less wires are expensive and give mixed results unless you are exert in their use. Sorry to confuse the issue. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
I recently bought a Cigweld Transmig 175i MIG welder for a job. The 30 year old stick welder I had until then is not much good for welding thin steel (or is it the operator  ?). Anyway, it was not cheap but I can write it off as a business expense for the part time work I do in my retirement.
There was a big learning curve with this new welder, I never had used MIG welding before. I used coated wire so far but the welder is fully equipped for gas and also can connect a TIG gun. Unfortunately the Tig gun is optional extra but I might have some ss welding coming up and get one. The gas bottle renting problem is a worry, I talked to the salesman about that and he recommended for the once a year or less jobs to rent a half size bottle, use it up and cancel the rent before the next installment is due. I will look into that then. Tig welding is also new to me but I did a fair bit of oxy welding in the past and the experts say Tig is very similar. My Transmig 175i is a DC welder and I was told one requires AC + gas for aluminium welding but I have no requirement for alu welding anyway. Klaus |
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Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
The thing is with buying a welder, what you think you might want to do with it, is often not what you find yourself wanting to do with it. I have stick welders, oxy acetylene , and 2 (or is it 3) mig welders, i first bought a CIG Transmig 130 twin 20 years ago and wore it out 95% in about 2 years (i done a lot with it) then bought a UniMig 240 and never regretted it. (Then bought a few secondhand migs for making battery charges from them) I can weld with gasless wire, but i do think it is total crap to work with, compared to a mig with gas, to the point i would rather pay for gas than use gasless wire. A gas mig to me is a metal glue gun, where as gasless wire you need to rip the welding rule book up and start again. If i have to weld heavy metal (3mm -12mm wall thickness) and its a job to take the welder to, rather than taking the job to the welder, i would use the stick welder. In many ways if the material is heavy enough (3mm ++) a stick welder will give a better weld on average, due to the fact its more universal to be able to select an electrode to suit the weld situation. If i was to buy another welder it would be an inverter type (then i already have most of the others) for many reasons Bob listed, light to move around, good control of current, and important... they work well on a extension lead. The power drop with using extension leads is huge with most welder to the point it starts to meld the plastic in the plugs and cables, but often we need to take the welder to the job. If i was you looking for what might be your first welder, i would first look to see what stick welder i could pick up second hand for next to nothing, most cases $50.00 would be max for a reasonable stick welder, ive seen people throw them out in council rubbish. Then the important part....... the welding mask,......... dont be a cheap ass here and buy a fixed lens mask, do yourself a favor and buy a auto tint electronic mask, you will never regret it, and nowdays they are not that expensive ... $50.00 you can pick them up for. (i paid over $600.00 for mine years ago) The bottom line is if you cant see what you are welding you have little hope of welding it. Regardless of what you buy, your welding will be crap until you do enough and master the skill. Its not the welder that makes the weld its the operator and their ability to weld, practice, practice, and you will learn to weld most things. Forget welding Aluminum, it aint going to happen !!!, that might sound strong, but aluminum is one of the hardest metals to weld, and even with all the right gear to do it with, its not a job for a novice without welding skills. (happy if you prove me wrong) Pete. Sometimes it just works |
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yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
The portable 240v DC inverter welders are a real little gem, some of the newies have electronics to help strike the arc and hold it stable while you are welding, after using one you will never go back to a transformer welder. I wish they were around when I started, there is nothing worse than trying to weld with a damp low hydrogen rod on a small AC transformer welder when all the mum's in the area start cooking the evening meal. The MIGs are just starting to go to inverters too. I spotted a couple of inverter MIG,DC TIG,STICK welders in the shop the other day. HOT TIP: 0.8mm wire is the best size for a smaller MIG welder using gas (under 190 Amp) 0.9mm is too big to get good control. 0.6mm is for sheet-metal work. I not keen on running flux cored wire in my smaller machines it can be a real hassle if there is some wear in the wirefeed and gun plus the weld quality is no better than a good stick welder. Bottle rental is about $14 per month and a full bottle will be anywhere from $50 to $130 depending on the supplier, bottle size and gas blend. If you are looking to weld thin aluminium, visit a specialist welding sales and hire place and have a chat to them about hiring something suitable. I weld alloy truck tipper bodies with a standard MIG and a spool gun but the thicker metal can handle the heat buildup, thin stuff requires a bit of high tech gear. I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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| Wombat Regular Member Joined: 27/05/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 72 |
Thanks for the reply's guys. I understand gas is a problem... so I won't go there. I see a leaning curve on a small stick welder coming on! So what's the go with Duty Cycles? I don't understand... And i only have 10A sockets here. Should I just change one to 15A? I can't seem to find one with a 10A plug. There's some nice 200A units out there, with 15A plugs. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-ROSSI-S200-200AMP-MMA-ARC-DC- INVERTER-WELDER-Tig-Stick-Welding-Helmet-/130671379363?pt=AU _Welding&hash=item1e6c9f03a3 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Rossi-ARC-200-200Amp-DC-iGBT- Inverter-Welder-Portable-Stick-Welding-Machine-/140767884943 ?pt=AU_Welding&hash=item20c66b768f So many choices, It's doing my head in! 
Russ |
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| Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
Duty cycle basically means what period of time you can weld for within a given period of time, if we said a duty cycle of 50% over 10 minutes, it would mean you can weld for 5 minutes in the 10 minute window. In most cases for a home hobby user duty cycle dont mean squat, and its just a term used to make someone sound as they know what they are talking about. The difference between a 10 amp plug and a 15 amp plug is the wire size supplying the plug. Otherwise the only difference to the plug/socket is the earth pin on a 15 amp is slightly bigger preventing it fitting into a 10 amp socket. The most common solution is to run the earth pin along the grinder and reduce it to fit a 10 amp socket. Bear in mind the 15 amp is only needed if you draw max current from the welder, if you want to screw the welder up to max and use a heavy rod then you need a heavy supply socket. For mid range welding a 10 amp socket is good enough. With the average circuit breaker in the fuse box of now days in use, the breaker will trip if the current load exceeds the rated limits of the power point. As i and Bob pointed out its the length of the cable run supplying the welder that makes the difference, this includes the cable supplying the power point as well as the cable plugged into the power point. (the age old problem with distance of a copper conductor = resistance, then resistance = a reduction in voltage at a given amperage), its a vicious circle all based on ohms law. Buy what will do the job at the best price you can, then given time you have not invested too much when it comes down to buying a better welder, once you fully understand what suits your needs best. Pete. Sometimes it just works |
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| yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
If you was living near Adelaide I would say drop into Welding Equipment Supply & Service and have a chat to them. You will get a good welder with genuine local warranty for not much more money, they might even have a few trade ins for sale. I am sure there are similar businesses in other states. The way I deal with the 15 amp plug is buy a 10 metre heavy duty extension lead that stays with the welder and file the earth terminal down on that. The cable in the wall will be 10,15 or 20 Amp (rated @ continuous use) so it should handle the stop start 20-30 amps of the welder easily, don't know about the circuit breakers though. what about something like this? CIGWELD 170 AMP INVERTER DC WELDER Its probably worth the extra money for the 5 metre welding cables. I could weld 14 mm plate in three or four passes with that. I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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powerednut Senior Member  Joined: 09/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 221 |
One thing i'd recommend is seeing if your local TAFE (or equiv) runs welding courses. They often run in the evenings or on weekends. If you've never welded before it'll make your life a lot easier. |
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| Wombat Regular Member Joined: 27/05/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 72 |
OK! SOLD! Time to relax a bit, take stock, and now just do it! Cigweld 170 for me. 
And CIG is just down the road! I must be blind. 
I can pick one up Just Tools in South Melbourne for $299 inc GST with 2 year warranty. 
I'm assuming that the shop name, not the people. 
I can get any sort of scrap steel I need (small bits), for nicks. So now I'm off to Russell's School for Welding. I really do appreciate all of your reply's. Thankyou! Russ P.S. Question... What would be considered a good quality welding rod and what is low hydrogen for?  Thanks again.
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Wombat Low hydrogen rods ere used for welding high tensile steel without weld cracking out of the base metal, they are more suseptable to moisture damage due to the composition of the flux, so keep in a warm dry location. In our workshop we used an old fridge with a light globe in it to provide warmth and keep the RH down on our welding rods. A good rod for welding odd metals is a GIG rod called weldall it is expensive but will weld nearly ferrous metal together. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
Descriptions on packets of welding rods are a bit like labels on wine bottles, lot of hype not much plain language. first place to look is for the E number on the packet. Even the cheap yum-cha rods should have the American classification, you will see the letters AWS then E6013. It Stands for Electrode, 60,000 pounds per Sq inch tensile strength and 13 is the rod type and flux class. A 13 is a general purpose rod, all positions (except vertical down) runny fluid sl*g, mild penetration, AC or DC+ or DC-. This is the rod that gets sold to 90% of home hobby welders and it works for most stuff.(size to use 2.5mm, 3.2mm and 4.0mm) eg CIG satincraft, WIA austarc 13S If you are going to try welding a few different bits and pieces then keep an eye out for some more specialist rod classes. 12 (size to use 2.0mm 2.5mm) eg lincoln easyarc E6012, WIA Austarc 12P Same as the 13 but has a fast freezing sl*g. you will need to have above average technique to keep the sl*g out of your welds but they are great for bridging gaps and welding sheetmetal using the vertical down weld. its a fast weld that keeps the work cool and stops the rod from blowing holes in the work. 10 or 11 (size to use 2.5mm or 3.2mm) cellulose flux deep penetrating rods, used to get right into a join for the first pass weld when you cant get at the back to weld the other side (pipe or RHS) or you cant Vee the joint out. 16 (size to use 2.0mm 2.5mm 3.2mm) eg WIA Austarc 16TC Low hydrogen rod, used for welding everything stronger than mild steel. Best to use a smaller diameter rod and do multiple passes, Grab as many as you need for a days welding and dry them in the oven, stick them in an airtight container while you work. 18 (smaller sizes if you can get em) It's a hydrogen controlled low iron powder rod. this is the rod that professional welders burn the most of, same as the 16 but the iron powder gives more weld per rod. Need a welder with some grunt to burn these in the larger sizes. Should be some cheap no name rods around, the fancy ones have graphite tips for easy arc striking. Sometimes you need to gently bang the tip of the rod on the floor, to chip away some flux to make it easier to re-strike the arc, when you are starting a weld with a half used rod. 24 (3.2mm 4.0mm and maybe 5.0mm) High iron powder.only good for horizontal flat and fillet welds but produces big smooth clean pretty welds with the welder cranked right up, great for showing off! 
I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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| grub Senior Member Joined: 27/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 169 |
You know, I have known about different types of welding rods for welding different types of metal for decades and this is the first time I have heard about the E number system. Learn something new here all the time. What a great site! |
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mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
Yahoo2; I never gave it a second thought about the "crew" not being familure with the ID codes of welding rod...High marks for you. I sometimes miss the forest for the trees, or is it the trees for the forest? Been burning rods all my life and you got it right on the money. As expensive as weld rod is these days I have refined the art of useing fenceing wire in those not so vital welds. I use a AC/DC + - buzz box for most things...Torch for cast iron brazeing...forge for makeing bits and keeping warm in the winter. Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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| yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
Thanks for the positive feedback, I really appreciate it. It feels good when some of the crud that washes around in the back of my brain is good for something. If this was an engineering forum, I would have been pounded for talking about the old standards, they would quote the latest metric AS/NZS and ISO standards and sneer at using the old numbers.  However, this is a mostly a DIY focused site, the Bodger's bargains and second hand stuff is not usually stamped with the new codes.
I figure it is not a great leap from here to the new stuff and if someone is that interested, they will download a chart from a suppliers website and work it out themselves. The great thing about knowing this is, when you spot a bucket of half used packets of old rods at a garage sale, a quick look will tell you if it is a bargain. 5.0mm deep penetrating and iron powder rods that have been scrounged from a job-site are not worth the effort to carry to the car, unless you are kitted up for working with heavy plate. However smaller diameter rods are a different story, if you can find a number on some of the rods or the packets then they can be sorted, so $5 or $10 for the lot is good value. 2.5mm rods are about $16 per Kg 3.2mm rods are about $11 per Kg new. Mac, I would like to get a few tips from you one day about setting up a forge in a shed, perhaps I could start a topic. The traditional Aussie blacksmith's setup is mostly outdoors, not great for stopping thieves pinching the tools. I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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| yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
Blimey, I've been Guru'ed 
 Spose that means I have to lift my standards, no more posting while sitting around in my undies, Italian suit and tie from now on!I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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| Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
[quote]The traditional Aussie blacksmith's setup is mostly outdoors, not great for stopping thieves pinching the tools.[/quote] That was mainly because they did not have sheds back then. I made one some years back for my nephew as he was a cash strapped kid (14yo)that wanted to try blacksmithing. All i used was a cast brake drum (select a size suitable to your needs)for the coke fire to burn in and used and old hair drier for the fan/air flow, some 3" exhast tube for the air feed and thats about it. Now some 10 years on he (nephew hes an engineer now) still enjoys firing his forge up and beating some red hot metal into shape. All was mounted on some legs with wheels on one end so he can wheel it in or out of the shed as required. Also made him a anvil from some heavy gauge railway track, which works a treat to, he was given a big anvil later from a local person who thought it was great to see a young fellow interested in blacksmithing. No photos of the forge but a couple of a small anvil i made for myself years ago. 
Sometimes it just works |
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