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Forum Index : Other Stuff : Drill a bore or filter a creek?
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
OK, continuing on from my other post about equipping a bore. I'm wondering if I should drill at all. I'm a bit concerned they wont strike water, and I'm out of pocket $5000 plus. That money could have gone towards other things that I know would have worked, like new batteries and a water filtration unit. I had the drilling contractor out last week, he wandered around with his bit of bent wire, and found a place where " 3 streams overlap ", dropped a rock on the spot and said this was the place to drill. A couple of days later a neighbor did the same, walked around with a bit of wire and over the same spot, said "3 streams here". I didn't tell him where the drilling contractor had placed his rock, so I was surprised he said the same over the same spot. But my scientific mind is still in a lot of doubt. If they drill and find no water, then I still need to pay. That's a lot of money to me. I do have a creek with a permanent soak fed water hole. I could pump 1000 liters out of it a day, and am currently pumping about 500 liters a day to water the yard and a few trees. I'm wondering if I should instead invest some money in a water filtration unit. It would be cheaper than drilling the bore, plus guaranteed to get results, unlike a new bore. Then I would have some money spare to upgrade my battery bank. I guess my question is, how likely is it for my new bore to be dry? Does anyone have experience in drilling bores who could give a idea how often it happens. The neighbors bores are all OK, but is that a good sign? Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| greg199 Newbie  Joined: 03/11/2015 Location: AustraliaPosts: 39 |
How about a negotiated deal with the drilling contractor? That is: if he is so confident that he knows where to drill he won't mind not charging you if he drills a dry hole. If he drills a dry hole you do not pay. He keeps drilling until he finds good water and then you pay the $5000. Filtering the soak source sounds like a good solution but it may be more susceptible to drying up from actions by your neighbours or others. This is an idea on my part, not fact. I've seen geological maps showing underground water sources and "likely" water sources - a bit like topographical maps available to all of us. I'm guessing that these maps are collated from drilling data supplied by drilling contractors - who have to (probably legally) provide the data from every hole they drill. I'd suggest contacting your local council to establish the source of these maps and buy your own. The act of water divining may have more to do with the maps these diviners have in their car rather than their mystic skills. An advantage of a drilled bore of course is that you then have an extra source of water apart from the creek. |
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| domwild Guru  Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873 |
Interesting! The same thing happened to me. An old Italian with his two twigs found a spot which I remembered and a Canadian drilling engineer with two bent wires found the same spot. With lack of rainfall these days in Perth, that former well did not even fill up in winter, but next door the council installed a bore and my sand horizon with water may now be pumped too. From memory, the Mines Dep. insists the drillers must submit a geo. report of depth + minerals found (+ water hopefully), so I suggest you contact them and neighbours with bores if there are any close by. Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up. Winston Churchill |
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Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
Water divining is somewhat a black art, and not everyone can do it, I for one can not do it, although I have seen others with great ability divine water. To the point the bent wire has twisted in their hand and broken the skin to produce bleeding. There is another step in divining I have seen done and that is to walk backwards from the selected location till the wire moves away from the direction of location, then measure the distance to the selected location, this is the depth to water. When I was around 13yrs old my dad had a bore location divined by a friend and he found 2 streams that crossed and estimated it to be at 15 feet deep. We decided to dig a well, which I was very interested in and dug most of it. I remember very well taking a spade of earth/sandy material out and seeing water flow in, then panicking and putting the soil back to stop the water. The first stream was true to estimate and at 15 foot, the second stream was a few feet lower and true to the person who divined it both streams were exactly crossing in the directions he had said. I still remember watching the clear water flow into the murky water in the well from the direction he had said, then placing my hand over the hole the water flowed in from. The only thing that can not be predicted is the quantity of water you can draw from the well. In some years later I worked for a water drilling company and yes you will find water almost anywhere, its just the depth that changes to where you find it at what quantity. Most water borers will not consider ground water close to surface, normally for 2 reasons, the first being it is more subject to change with seasons and annual rainfall, the second is no real money in drilling only a shallow well of 10-15 foot. Was any indication of depth of water given for the divined spot chosen ?? Have you tried divining yourself?? Pete. Sometimes it just works |
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TassyJim Guru Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6098 |
I had a water diviner in when I decided to put a bore down. He successfully found a few of my water pipes so I had some expectations that his drill spots were worth the investment. Under his direction, I tried some divining and was surprised that I could detect the same places as he did. Being an engineer, I was troubled by this but hey, the world is an interesting place... One of the places was right beside my shed with power available so that is where we drilled. The first water was found at 25 meters but we went deeper looking for a better flow. We stopped at 40+ metres. If they don't find water, you don't have to pay for the casing which is not cheap. My driller charged by the metre but there are some who do a 'no water, no pay' rate. I used to pump from the creek about 200 meters away. I got sick of carting petrol down to the pump and fighting the snakes. Clean water from the bore at the flick of a switch is much nicer and it is one investment I don't regret. Jim VK7JH MMedit MMBasic Help |
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oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686 |
Depends what you want to end up with. I have designed and built a reverse osmosis unit that runs on 90 watts, and on a normal solar day, can easliy make 1000 liters of 1-4 ppm water from stock water with a 250w panel....even while it rains it produces... I also have a salt water unit currently under construction/testing for an outer island here. So if the creek has pernament water, a 250 watt solar panel and a desalinator for brackish water would give you the most perfect water in the world as far as ppm of dissolved solids and bacteria and virus go. The only draw back is that you will get no mineral in yor diet from drinking it... it has no taste at all, and is crystal and I mean crystal clear for many many feet deep... weird really.... pure water is truly colorless and odourless. Nice to drink, but the gag reflex does not see it, so you don't stop for breath/gulp halfway through a glass.... interesting side effect. I also use it for topping up the battery bank ( 24 x T105-RE )... added bonus. Cheaper than your drilling, and best water you can get.. better than rain water ... which seems to get dirty on the way down.. and we have the cleanest air in the world here too. It runs on about 170psi, so the water has the pressure behind it to go up to the house with no other pumps required... just a bonus really ............oztules Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Interesting comments. My plumber is visiting tomorrow to help me fit a gas oven, so I'll throw some questions at him too. I did try the water divining myself Pete, nothing, but I think I was thinking too hard "this cant possible work!". The driller said water should be at 30 meters, seams to be a constant for bores in the area. I like the idea of a bore because as Jim said, flick a switch and you have water, plus it increases the value of the property. And as Greg said, its a extra water source if the creek was to ever run dry. Bore water quality, or if I get water at all, wont be known until they have drilled. I do have the bore pump now as well, so already invested a few funds into a bore. Filtering the creek water would be interesting. The water hole has never run dry, has a few small fish in it, and I guess would hold about 50,000 litres. Water always trickles out, even with me pumping 500 litres a day and no inflow. Upstream is farmland, so chances are when the water flows its full of fertilizer, cow poo, industrial fluids, top soil, etc. I would be keen to find out more about your reverse osmosis system Oz. One problem with the creek is its about 250m away, runs up a 1 inch poly pipe laying on the ground, and by the time water gets up to the house, its very hot! The bore would be about 30 meters from the house, so cool water, and I could use it for watering the gardens and lawn. Lots to think about. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
I can only think of two ways to justify drilling a bore. capital gain- maybe there could be a perceived increase in the value of your property should you decide to sell. water for livestock production. there are niche markets for some breeds of poultry, sheep, pigs etc that will easily return $2-$4 for every $1 invested provided it is done the right way. I guess there are other reasons but I am struggling to think of any. perhaps the prospect of 3 years with no rain! I made the mistake of over-watering my garden and pouring water onto bare soil and was leeching nutrients from the soil. I have changed the way I do things and I now lightly water once every 3 weeks in summer if it is really dry and not at all the rest of the year, everything is lush and green, my soil now holds nutrients and water. the problem is it took me 3 years to correct things and ween the water use back with quite a few dead plants along the way cos I had very little idea what I was doing. Providing you keep the light and bird sh*t out of your water storage to prevent algae growing on any nitrates in the water, relatively clean water will store for years with no problems, if there is a meningitis scare around, a dose of chloramine will stop an infection happening if kids take to swimming in open tanks or squirting a hose up their nose. Personally I would save the $8-9 grand on fitting out a bore, solar pump the soak, buy an extra storage tank and filter some rainwater for drinking if you think it is necessary. PS I just read your post Glenn, I had problems with hot water in poly, about an inch of dirt and an inch of straw or hay over the top drops the temp to about 15 deg on a 40 degree day. I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
Water divining, yes there may be a little fact with that but when comments like: "two streams crossing a few feet apart" are mentioned my practical mind rejects this as BS and mind boggling nonsense. Think about it, underground water flows usually downhill, just above or in between layers of impervious soil. So, to have two creeks flowing a few feet apart, there must be a thin impervious layer between them. Plausible, but the topography down there to make them "cross" sounds unrealistic. So, if there "is" water flowing below ground as those diviners say, they should be able to follow the underground "creek" from its source to where it goes. Telling me water is down "here" and not anywhere else within a few meters around that spot is highly questionable to my way of thinking unless there is a break in the impervious layer which allows water under pressure below that break to seep through. Good luck Glenn with your task. Klaus |
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| Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
I have spent a big part of life drilling or working on oil/gas wells and early part of life drilling water wells, it might seem a little strange to have streams in formations cross over with only a small layer of formations between them, but it is fact. often there can be a water zone very close to a oil/gas zone and the 2 never meet, same with 2 water zones or gas and oil zones for that matter. It all comes down to hydrostatic pressure of the zone and the formation of the earth, it is not uncommon to have a permeable layer between a higher density layer in formations allowing for 2 different flows of fluids that never meet, its a result that has formed over millions of years and to think man knows better that this is not possible is somewhat a little short sighted. Yes all formations have a "break down" point with pressure, this is normally several times higher than the formation pressures at hand, and hence why for several million years the 2 formation flows have never meet with often crossing over many times. It is also important to realize there is paths in formations that has flow capability's and areas of that formation that have soak or seepage ability from the flow in the formation, naturally one would target the flow part of the formation to tap into a higher capacity of supply from the well, although water can be sourced from the soak area the capacity of supply will be much reduced. That is where divining of water comes in to locate the flow source to give the best return for money spent in the well/bore allowing for greater quantity of water to be extracted. Oil and Gas use seismic surveys to locate possible reservoirs trapped in the formations, even then we rely on permeable formations to allow the formation fluids to flow to the well. Drilling a well is always somewhat a hit and miss exercise, although divining can help reduce the error of miss to some degree, but no sure bet. I would still go with a divined location than just picking a random spot to drill a water well within the given area. Pete. Sometimes it just works |
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rustyrod Senior Member  Joined: 08/11/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 121 |
Comment, I have two bores on my property. One is over 6 lengths of casing deep, has 3 lengths of casing installed. The rest is rock. Delivers 300 gallons per hour. It is 12 to 15 feet to the water surface. I have a windmill and a piston pump on this one. The mill pipe/pump is up for repair. Rusted out pipe and worn valves.Lasted 7 years. Piston pump is in shed waiting fitment of smaller petrol engine. Large engine oils up as not working hard enough. Pump needs packing gland attention. 6 feet or 2 meters away is the other, It is 3 lengths of casing deep, has only 2 lengths installed. It delivers "LOTS" for irrigation. It is 20 feet to the water surface. I have a "Mono" shaft pump and diesel engine to (one-day) install on this one. Both are drinkable for stock, high in minerals. Grow veggies and lawn quite well. After a week in an open tank brown algae takes over. Plunging/purging either bore does not effect the other. The creek is 40 feet away and is 20 to 25 feet from the top of the bank to the water surface. The "stream" or "streams" do not leak into the creek. The deep bore was drilled first, the shallow drilled later as the previous property owner (before it was cut up for residential) wanted to irrigate. The first drill missed the stream by 6 feet. So Pete "Drilling a well is always somewhat a hit and miss exercise" was proven here. Glenn, That should help your confidence 
When I was younger I could feel the pull of the forked stick or the cross wires,I have dried out with age and have no feel anymore. My suggestion - Seeing as you have a spring feeding the water hole, If you put in a battery submersible pump, add a filter like this (has a bonus pump in the base) or some-other washable filter and for a small supply of purer water maybe something like this element in suitable housing. These are for illustration purposes as finding pics was too hard, there are other filters and prices. I have clear housings, these clog up with (green) algae, so recommend "dark" housings. My creek is "inspected" every couple of years by ? council or water or weed people, I wondered what they would say if one of them found a pump. The creek was not running so the pump was "out" at these inspections. This creek drains most of the west side of town. Very close upstream from me there is considerable NEW industry development, service stations including the new council dump recycling center, so I wonder how long before something "nasty" flows past down to the condamine and the murray darling? I have not used this water for some years. The other bores are registered. Always Thinking |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Thanks for all the good advice. I've decided to not go ahead with the bore drilling at this time. Several reasons. I've never run out of tank water for a start, so its not like I need more water. There is a risk the driller might not find water before my funds run out. Those funds could be used for a lot of other stuff. Plus I have a creek with a permanent water hole, and a neighbour with a bore only 100 meters away if I desperately need it. I had allowed $6000 to put the hole down. Instead, I plan to use that same money to improve other areas of my home, including 15 tones of gravel for the driveway, some fences so I can get cows, get the wood stove installed before winter, finish enclosing under the house, and put a few dollars towards a long term car project. Plus I'll buy an extra 22,000 litre water tank, which will bring my capacity to nearly 70,000 litres. At the moment all my tanks are full of rain water and oveflow when it rains. And I'll improve my water pumping system from the creek, and add a filtration system so I can use creek water to keep the tanks topped up. I've spoken to the drilling contractor this morning, he's OK, lots on his plate anyway. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| Georgen Guru Joined: 13/09/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 462 |
Often it is hard to decide, but if you never run out of water you should be OK As a precaution you can add another tank for those "One in so many years drought event" and you will have extra insurance of water supply. George |
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