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Forum Index : Other Stuff : Equipping a new bore.
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Hey after some general advise. I'm putting a water bore down on my place next week. The expected depth is about 40 meters, water at about 30 meters from the top, 1500 litres an hour, based on the other bores in the neighborhood. It will have a 5 inch casing. So I need to get the water out. I could buy a 750watt 240vac bore pump for around $300 and drop that in the hole, then switch it on whenever I want to, like to fill a tank or run a sprinker. But I do have a Southern Cross windmill, 6 foot blade on a 25 foot tower, plus the pump and packing gland, but not the pipes and drive shaft. While I like the idea of the windmill, it could be too much work and expense compared to the 240vac bore pump. I could put up the mill next to the bore instead of over it, and some how use the windmill power to a pump water indirectly, but this is where my knowledge ends. I was thinking there may be a hydralic operated pump, where the windmill is used to provide the pumping pressure, fed down the bore via hoses to a pump of some sort. Not sure if such a thing exists. Any tips welcome. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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rustyrod Senior Member  Joined: 08/11/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 121 |
Windmills are made to LIFT not push down, if the head is not held by the E clips to the support post it may push off the top. To push down you need weight in the rods so for a shallow lift the mill may need 3/4 inch rods. Rods are made from mild steel and threaded yourself, each rod needs to be the same length as each of your pipes. Re hydraulic operated pump, if you thought about a double acting system, the rams need considerable horses to move them without any load. I personally cannot move a 2 1/2 inch hydraulic ram by hand. So you would need a large cantilever and huge weights. (too hard) I suggest to mount the windmill slightly offset over the bore so your pipe is near a side of the casing, use 1/2 inch rods and a force pump at the top of the stand pipe near the top of the tower.(I think you will have 3 lengths down the hole) The force pump eliminates the need of a packing gland for pumping over a distance and reduces the "lift load" on the mill. Always have about 3 feet of wood between the head and the pump rods, this acts as a shock absorber for the gears in the head. (you can adjust the wood length too, for the stroke of the pump) By mounting offset you can then (after the mill pipe and pump is down) slide the electric pump down too. I see some 48 volt bore pumps on ebay. ($150) check their outer diameter as they need to squeeze down by the lift pipe. I have a 30ft tower 8ft wheel. I use 2 1/4 inch pump, extra foot valve, 9/16 rod and 1 1/2 inch lift pipe and a 1 1/4 inch force pump, I also have a large expansion tank at the mill, to reduce hammering. I have one length of rod above the casing and one and a half rods down the hole. There is 1 1/2 inch poly then to the tank on top of a container at the house, or just let it flood irrigate. Wrap the outside of your lift pipe from the pump to well above the water line with a couple of layers of duct tape. This reduces the oxidation and electrolysis on the pipe and prolongs it's life. Use brass couplings to join the rods. Make sure everything is perpendicular to ensure the rods do not press sideways and wear the pipes,rods,couplings and the insides of the pump. Make positively sure the threads on the rods are straight, especially at the pump. NEVER NEVER - tie the wheel to the tower only to the tail, this way if a whillywhilly comes the head can go around and around the tower, not bend everything to bits. I'll bet there is no wind the day you get it all put together. Always Thinking |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Thanks rusty, very informative. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| greg199 Newbie  Joined: 03/11/2015 Location: AustraliaPosts: 39 |
You are a gold mine of information Rustyrod. Have you written a book on the finer (and practical) details of installing and maintaining a windmill? I'd be willing to buy it. If you have not written one can you recommend a book or an online source for such useful information? |
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TassyJim Guru  Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6098 |
I can't help you with the windmill but I do have a similar bore here. Depth to the water table is similar and flow rate also similar. My 240V electric pump is a bit oversized for the inflow so it has a cutout for when it starts pumping air. We are having a (very) dry spell here so the first pump run for the day lasts about 1.25 - 1.5 hours before the cutout does it's thing. The pump automatically restarts after 45 minutes and each subsequent run till empty is shorter. By the end of the day the pump runs for 40 minutes max. First run starts with 720 watts draw for 33.5L/minute. After an hour or so it's down to 680 watts for 24.5 L/M I pump at full flow into a tank. I could throttle the flow back until I pump without cutting out but that would be a lot less efficient. I chart the pump discharge rates so I can keep an eye on the bore. It is going to give me some sad looking graphs by the end of summer. Jim VK7JH MMedit MMBasic Help |
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Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
You might be wrong in your thinking there, as if you drop the output volume off the power factor also drops off. it might seem strange to think pumping against a restricted outlet will reduce lower power input requirements, but in most cases it how pumps work. So for example to choke back the output and run the pump longer to give the same quantity of water will likely cost less in power consumed. Pete. Sometimes it just works |
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norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
Purchased 12months plus back now on Ebay, 3 X 24volt Chinese Look-a-like Shurflo Submersible pumps, $150 each have had 2 (3rd for spare) of them pumping direct from solar cells since(through maximisers). Cannot fault them, the original Shurflo had water ingression into motor problems, fixed under warranty but 6 months later same problem. But my main bore has a Lorentz (expensive) that has been operating for 9 years now, other than a original problem fixed under warranty, the Lorentz is the bees knees. My original windmill I removed and is now lying down, got tired of maintenance. Solar is the go for me. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| MOBI Guru Joined: 02/12/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 819 |
Hi Vic, The same situation here. I had a Varcoe double geared mill on my bore with a 30foot tower and rarely got enough wind to keep the tank full even though the whole country side appeared to be clear with no obstructions from standing on the platform. I bit the bullet and installed a Lorentz helical pump with controller and amorphous silicon panels (plastic sort). That was 8 years ago and it is still running fine. At the time, it all cost about $6,000 but has been very reliable. Panels are much cheaper now. The mill tower was converted to 24vdc wind generator which failed too many times to call it a success, hence my conversion to totally solar. David M David M. |
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| norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
Hi David, Yeah, tis boring solar, bugger all maintenance, reliable etc etc, everything wind isn`t, just what the doctor ordered for this old codger, when you travel the outback and see windmills being replaced with solar pumping, the writings on the wall for wind. Of course there probably is a few places where there is bugger all sun, wind then could be of use. I have been real impressed with those Chinese Submersible pumps,one in particular I have a 180 watt panel running and a simple maximiser(no voltage regulator), the voltage gets up to 38volts during clear days on the pump side, has not missed a beat. The "genuine" Shurflo cost a wee over $1200, just not in Lorentzs league. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| domwild Guru Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873 |
Been told the reason why there is a lot of changeover to solar with water pumping, it is the OH&S requirement for station staff to have a rigger's certificate. The owner or manager of a sheep or cattle station can no longer just get the nearest roustabout to climb up the tower for maintenance. And that is apart from the convenience of solar. And if a cyclone is forecast, then the manager/owner has to fly to each mill to wind it back (furl). Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up. Winston Churchill |
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