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Forum Index : Other Stuff : RE power problems Germany
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| domwild Guru  Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873 |
Hi, Being pro-RE and not anti, by the way, I came across some bad news somewhere: German industry is finding the fluctuating power is causing outages and industry is demanding solutions. The compensation paid by generators stands at euro4,000 (~$6000) and that is the max. and is not good enough in all cases. The problems caused by the many mills and solar systems seems to be the voltage fluctuations, which then cause a drop-out of the electronics steering the industry. Looks like the generators can never respond quickly enough to the fluctuations caused by clouds/lulls. In Carnarvon (WA) with lots of PV they had to invest now in a battery-based system to even out fluctuations, which caused the diesel plant operator many problems before. As Germany is phasing out nuclear they are building more coal-fired stations, which really is not the solution or are buying more energy from nuclear-driven France. Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up. Winston Churchill |
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norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
I`m hopeful that it is just teething problems, and when you think of it there would be with new tech tying in with the old tech. Coal will be king for many more years our industries need continuous stable power but it is a start. Solutions will come RE as of now cannot hope to go it alone on the grid but in time who knows. The size, cost etc of batteries can apply to our individual systems but still a long way off before they can, if at all in grid situations. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
I am for using nuclear technology in space but not on Earth. Life is affected by nuclear waste. If others won't switch to RE as Germany, I see Germany reverting back to nuclear plants very soon. Unless they make a breakthrough on RE... I thought (as many others from here) at a lot of "solutions" regarding manufacturing in a completely green world and definitely we are depending on wood as a main construction material. I mean, even if you have solar energy, you won't be able to use your 3D printer for making things, as the plastic wire depends on petroleum industry and that will be the first to die (prices for the wire are already high). We will return to the steam power and the forests will value gold. Of course, there are also Stirling engines and those are already in use in some parts of the globe for producing energy or as engines for Submarines. I see part of the chemical plants will be moved in space (most probably on Mars where producing carbon dioxide is a must) and meteorite mining in space will become a generously paid job 
Carving wood guys, carving wood... 
If our Sun will last that long... Anyway, an interesting company. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Vasi There is no simple answer to the problem of industrial power as the mighty dollar has to be made and distributed to shareholders, for personal and household use the technology is available now to be totally independent and here in Australia there could be a flow on amount of electricity from each installation of 100% to be used by other entities including industry, but it would require the re alignment of work practices to coincide with power available. When i go into the city I wince at the power wasted by buildings and houses lit up like Christmas trees burning power for no reason other than a showy display of means of life. Then I look at the huge business buildings with roof space to generate megawatts of power not being utilized, with proper investment and management we wouldn't need to go to Mars to do things, it would cost a fortune to get a power cord from mars to supply power back to earth. Our whole system is based on excesses from the householder to the government with no sensible management of resources and a raping of the land for short term gain. People rely on government to solve the problem but that is like believing in the tooth fairy, people need to do things for themselves as we promote on this forum and hopefully stand out like a shining light down the track when others cannot afford power or the power companies cannot deliver enough power for the needs of the community. Off the soapbox All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
RE will be there when wind turbines, solar panels etc are built totally with RE power, but just the mining, processing and delivery of the raw materials to factories are way beyond RE as we know it. Cannot understand how people in power could not see this, whether in Germany or Carnarvon. Do they look? or go in blindly. Those bright city lights sure don`t make too much sense but they turn some of them off for an hour each Earth Day  We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Vic I believe that the mega power users should provide their own power stations and carry the cost instead of getting subsidized power from the grid at a few cents KWH while we are paying 30 cents KWH+, it would cut into their bottom line profit that they ship overseas but to me that's a good thing, at the moment they are making profit off the public's back. If they where forced to provide their own power then they may look at some form of RE to reduce costs and that would be a good thing, they would winge about how much employment they provide and the benefits to the economy, but do every conceivable thing to minimize their taxes and when you look at how many people they employ I think McDonalds would come out on top. Solar and wind can only do so much, but solar has unlimited potential in Australia for domestic use and I believe for transportation also but nobody wants to bite the bullet and get it rolling out as you found out with your venture, take that venture and multiply it by a million and you would be on the road to solving the domestic and small industry problem, throw in some NIFE cell batteries as buffers and extenders and problem solved, only have to recondition the batteries every 30 to 50 years and that's longer than most other things made these days lasts anyway. Instead of shipping all our coal overseas for "sixpence" put in a coal liqudification plant and relieve the dependence on imported fuels, if the Nazis could do it 80 years ago surely we could do it a bit better now. We are under the worst management system invented called government ably supported and enhanced by the Pubic Serpents in the background, Pity Help US. I had discussions with the electricity authority re feed in power and they offered me 4 cents KWH I pointed out to them that they are charging power to the public at 30 cents KWH and offered to split the difference with them so they pay me 15 cents KWH, but they said they can buy all they want at 6 cents KWH so I pointed out to them how greedy they are making 400% profit, they said they have all the distribution costs and maintenance costs to cover and only made half that, I nearly cried for them, most free enterprise businesses operate on a profit margin of between 10 and 20 percent. They also said that they needed high profit to cover night rate and couldn't afford to pay premium power input price because of that, they must think the sun shines all night I told them to put in switching foe between 7 AM and 8 PM their stated peak power usage time but they couldn't understand that " educated Idiots" They also said I would have to put in an Upgraded transformer to carry the power, I had to pay but it is still their transformer, they are thieves rouges and charlatans. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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solarwind Regular Member  Joined: 03/02/2008 Location: South AfricaPosts: 51 |
Sorry for joining late on this conversation! I fully understand what you are experiencing, Bob. We have just about the same situation. A solar farm (one of a few others) was constructed last year on a HUGE piece of land and only produces in theory 44 MW while the sun shines (Joint venture of private and government). The money spent is unimaginably high. This makes RE very expensive (utility scale). The area used is bigger than what is used for a single coal-fired power station generating 3990 MW (3.9 GW) 24/7. Governments are only interested in RE projects where they are involved and can make a buck and they don't give a damn about the individual (who votes for them and gets them in power). In my opinion it would be a lot cheaper to rather subsidize individuals to help them to become self sufficient with domestic RE. It could be in the form of a long term, low interest bond or similar. You don't have success until you've tried it! |
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| norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
It is a shame that world wide RE has been touted as the answer to our energy supplies, presently RE is not but down the track that`ll change. The shame is from this early promotion it has divided us into two camps, one fossil power camp the other the RE camp. Instead of pulling in two directions RE should be complimenting fossils, with the eventual aim to replace the finite resource fossil fuel. RE needs time to develop to replace the mature fossil fuels, am afraid it is being set back by the apparent haste the world is displaying. Not sure subsidies to get RE going is the way to go, but tis a start. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| MOBI Guru Joined: 02/12/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 819 |
Has anyone had a play with the databases available from The Australian Energy Operator (AEMO - pronounced ay ee mo) and the wind performance data website? The AEMO data is a little hard to extract but shows all the generation and load for the eastern states (i.e east of the WA border). It shows 5 minute data samples but uses mnemonics that are reasonably easy to grasp. Select your desired time slot then unzip and run on XL spread sheet. As for wind performance, the legwork has mostly been done and shows a running 24 hour block of wind farm output with data directly extracted from the AEMO databases. It is interactive so that you can select individual wind farms if you desire. You can also get a composite of wind, fossil, hydro etc. Have a good play. I'm sure you will have something to think about. AEMO Databases Wind Performance David M. |
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| domwild Guru Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873 |
Correct Bob, the nasties had a plant in Leuna in what used to be East Germany where they created hydrocarbons from coal, I believe it is the Fischer-Troppsch system. The very first fighter jets were supposed to guard that place as by 1945 Allied bombers had the range to reach this eastern plant but not before. Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up. Winston Churchill |
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| domwild Guru Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873 |
In the "In the news ..." section rolling off the bottom here I just read comments by Sir Richard Branson claiming the Arabs are not only trying to wreck the fracking/shale/gas/oil industry, they are also having an impact on RE. He also has a few $100 Mio. invested in RE as jet emissions are a major problem. Funny business as the oil shock of 19?? caused very high prices to upset the West and was done in revenge (to the Israeli six day war?) and now the West gets upset again by prices which are too low. Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up. Winston Churchill |
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| domwild Guru Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873 |
Thanks Vasi for supporting wood, in 2008 just before the GFC I received $37/tonne for my eucalyptus wood (Blue gums) and the last price I was quoted is $14/tonne. Mind you the dollar and the fuel drops every day so the price may still go up. Back to the days of the wood gas-fired trucks, please! Like after the war in Europe and I believe even here. Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up. Winston Churchill |
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| domwild Guru Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873 |
Things get worse and worser! When a developer puts in the power infrastructure at a subdivision we pay for it with higher land prices but this "gift" to the power company then becomes the property of the electricity co. Now the feds told our state body to pay tax on this "gift" and they refused and loaded the developer with the tax on top! Have written to our Minister as this is just too difficult to believe. Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up. Winston Churchill |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
The leaches are alive and well. Bob Foolin Around |
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