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joebog1 Senior Member Joined: 07/11/2015 Location: AustraliaPosts: 114
Posted: 05:45am 11 Aug 2018
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Generally you chuck electrodes like that Grogster. Its not really feasable to cut them back to the flux. Give it a try, but I think the flux will just continue to break off as you cut.
The second weld looks OK for penetration, but your speed of travel has varied :-) Thats normal. Just more practice.
To make straight lines, try clamping a piece of wood onto the plate to use as a hand steady, run your electrode along the timber to keep the line straight. It will help teach you to keep straight.
Just two bobs worth.
Joe
Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306
Posted: 06:02am 11 Aug 2018
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Can I assume that once an electrode loses it's flux like that, that it is normal for them to be hard to strike then, as there is no flux anymore, and they will just keep on sticking?
I have a packet of 100 electrodes - I figured I would have to sacrifice quite a few electrodes to the teaching process!
I like the wood guide idea. I will try that tomorrow. I only got a chance for a very quick play today, but I hope to be able to spend more time doing lines tomorrow.Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!
ryanm Senior Member Joined: 25/09/2015 Location: AustraliaPosts: 202
Posted: 06:18am 11 Aug 2018
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You should be able to remove most stuck electrodes with a quick blow from your chipping hammer, depending on how dextrous old lefty is.
If you bugger an electrode, put it aside and grab a fresh one. Then when you're done welding you can take your time to clean them all up at the same time.
Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1344
Posted: 11:43am 11 Aug 2018
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Just go grab a box of TC16 low hydrogen rods and learn with them. No need to worry about birdsh*t welds but once one stops they can be a bugger to start the arc again. A tip i got ages ages ago is as soon as you stop welding plunge the rod into some hardwood which stops the bead forming. It's that bead that makes it hard to start again and a pinch with your fingers to break the flux on the end of the rod can also help.
TC16 rods are industry standard so why bother with garden variety rods
Cheers Bryan
joebog1 Senior Member Joined: 07/11/2015 Location: AustraliaPosts: 114
Posted: 09:11pm 11 Aug 2018
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Yep Grogster, when the flux chips off its buggered. Bryan1 is a bit nasty!! Low hydrogen rods are a real bastid to learn on. They make excellent super strong welds, but they also need a very practiced hand to burn them. I use Cigweld "weldskill" rods. Fairly cheap, fairly easy to burn, makes excellent welds and make strong welds. They are also usable on a variety of steels.
If your trying to weld through galvanised surfaces REMOVE the galv with your angle grinder first!!! Galv smoke is bloody poisonous and really makes welding difficult. MIG wont weld galv at all untill its ground off.
Grogster, forget the "straight line" approach, find some off cuts of steel and weld them together. Flat welds to start with, then try vertical welding!!! N.B. you always weld vertical up, not from top to bottom as the weld will fall down and stick your rod to the job, AND it has very poor penetration. Practice is the best way to learn. Make sure you have a modern automatic helmet. Trying to hold a mask/helmet that is black to start with is hard. You can get an LCD helmet for as little as $50, although I would suggest something a little better. DO use gloves to begin with, once you get used to being clumsy, it gets easier!!
burn them rods boy!!
Joe
Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406
Posted: 11:40pm 11 Aug 2018
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Its been a very long time since I used a stick welder. But what I used to do was have large piece of scrap steel nearby, and drag the damaged end of the rod across that, and start a continuous arc going again on the scrap. Then go back to the job. With the end of the rod still hot, a clean arc will strike very easily. Its not very professional, but it works.Cheers, Tony.
Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306
Posted: 02:01am 12 Aug 2018
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Nice tips there chums, thanks. I am about to go out and do a bit more practise. I do have gloves, auto-darkening helmet and overalls etc. I will fully kit myself up for protection first and foremost.
I will post more photos here after today's experiments. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!
Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306
Posted: 05:29am 12 Aug 2018
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OK, I think I am actually making progress.
I still suck compared to a professional, but I think I am a little less sucky then before.
23 electrodes later(I only ruined one, so I burnt 22), here are today's line tests:
First attempt:
Second attempt:
Third attempt:
Forth attempt:
This was about an hour or so of playing about. I THINK I have mastered the art of striking the arc. By the end of today, I was only ever sticking on the odd occasion. When I first started, the electrodes were sticking all the time.
I start the arc using a feather-light brushing motion. Trying to plop the electrode onto the work-piece and quickly flick my wrist back - which is how Dad used to strike arcs all his life - just did not seem to be working for me. Brushing the electrode on the work seems to work for me every time.
The auto-darkening helmet is a thing of beauty. Dad just used to use the old ones that were permanently dark. How the hell welders knew where they were actually starting the arc is beyond me. I remember seeing Dad do it all the time - get electrode in roughly the right place, nod his head, helmet came down, strike arc and go. I guess as with all things, practise, practise, practise.
Something that became VERY obvious to me today, was that you have to teach yourself to get a feel for how slow or fast you feed the electrode into the weld. Too slow, and the arc grows to a massive size very quickly. To fast and you end up pushing the electrode into the weld and snuffing the arc - and the electrode then promptly sticks and stops.
All the seasoned welders on this forum will know all this already, I am just sharing my learning experience.
I learned today that there is an optimum distance and arc size such that you can see the weld pool below the arc, and as others have said - this is what you need to watch, and not the arc itself. Although, you do need to keep the arc the right size too, so I guess you have to watch both.
Start-stop welding seemed to work well for me. If the electrode and work are cold, this is when the sticking seemed to happen - for me. When the work has heated up, I could stop and start on the same line quite easily without sticking.
When I next get a chance, I will do more. I need to get some various bits of scrap steel to practise on, cos I want to do two bits together after a few more goes at lines. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!
Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406
Posted: 05:42am 12 Aug 2018
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Its like learning to walk, learning to swim, learning to ride a bike.
Its not just something you can be absolutely perfect at the very first attempt.
But pretty soon your brain, your eye, and your hand, will all become coordinated after a bit of practice.
A bit of theoretical knowledge comes next if you are really serious. A TAFE welding course might be worth thinking about, and its good to do that fairly early on before you start developing bad habits.Cheers, Tony.
Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306
Posted: 05:52am 12 Aug 2018
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In the next few days, I will try welding two bits of steel together.
As a summer project, I plan to build a go-kart. This will allow me to practise my welding, and also hopefully, have something practical at the end of it. I need much more practise before I start on that one, but summer is still a couple of months off yet.
I will no-doubt stuff up welds on that too, but there would be lots of different types of angles etc needed. I have already bought the engine.
Yes, I will investigate what is available over here in the way of courses. Probably best to do it the right way if I am learning at all. Point taken.
EDIT: Oh, I forgot to mention that once I got OK at striking an arc, and with the work hot, I tried playing with the current. The packet said 70-100 amps, so I tried again at 70 amps. Even with hot work, this was still too cold, and the electrode just started sticking again. 90 amps was a good value. I then also tried at 100 amps, and it also seemed to work well. Is there any rule of thumb for the current or do you just use what they say on the box, then tweak it within that to best suit yourself?Edited by Grogster 2018-08-13Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!
Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1344
Posted: 07:35am 12 Aug 2018
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Good to see your getting there Grogs, now there is a process called pad welding which would also be a good way to learn. Basically do a run say left to right with the angle of the rod about 60 degrees. Now when the first run is done just switch over and do the 60 degrees the other way and weld 1/2 of the previous weld. Keep welding until you reach the starting point and switch again.
Now to start a rod I just hit the rod on the material and raise it quickly to get the arc going, now if you aint happy with the start of the weld just swing the whirlpool back over it and start welding.
Like others have said it's just like riding a bike and practice practice practice did I say practice
Now to do a vertical up weld it's basically 1,2,3 where one is to the right, 2 is in the middle plunging in and 3 is on the left. Rinse and repeat until done.
Cheap welding rods do tend to leave sl*g inclusions which should be ground out and rewelded. With TC16's they just don't happen and who ever says they are hard to use just don't know how to weld. There is a good reason why TC16's are industry standard as they do make a stronger weld and a 1" weld will lift a tonne. Now try doing that with a garden variety rod.
I have been arc welding for over 35 years and the first time I used a tig welder the guy that got me to do it said I was a natural. We were tig welding coke cans for a laugh on a friday night before the drinking started. The following week I tig welded up a kitchen so all it takes is confidence and the will to do a top job.Edited by Bryan1 2018-08-13
Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.
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I remember seeing Dad do it all the time - get electrode in roughly the right place, nod his head, helmet came down, strike arc and go. I guess as with all things, practise, practise, practise.