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Forum Index : Solar : I’m going off grid
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VK6MRG Guru  Joined: 08/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 347 |
So, I have a hobby block with a 6m x 6m shed on it. The block is 1.4 acres and the shed is divided into two halves, one side setup as a small flat so to speak the other for storage. No power, no scheme water and up until recently, no phone. When the family and I go to the block we just used a small (850 watt) two stroke gen-set to have power for lights and a fridge. As I plan to build on or next to my block I thought it would be a good site office. So I have wired the shed up with internal and external lighting, power points, switch board etc. I do have a small 2500 liter water tank and in the future I will get 2 x 13500 liter water tanks for the extra water requirements. So back to the off grid side of things. The gen-set was very quite but as you would expect we had to have it running about 18 hours a day to keep the fridge cold. I did try and use a ups to act as a storage bank but the batteries didn't last long plus the beeper was annoying. And yes, I could have removed the beeper or installed a on/off switch for it and added extra batteries but it still didn't meet our power requirements. If we wanted to vacuum the floor or boil a kettle or use a toaster-oven to heat something up for the kids we couldn't. I have a 3500va ups here that i was going to try and use as a solar system but as it is a 96 volt system and trying to find a MPPT solar controller for 96 volts is next to impossible, and the only one I found was over $1600. Then I would still need panels, racking, cable etc... So, what to do...... So this is what I got! http://www.aussiebatteries.com.au/off-grid-solar/power-systems/off-grid-starter-kit But I did make some changes to the system! I got the watt hour meter, generator input (caravan stile) socket plus the extra racking and mounting equipment required for the job. I upgraded the IPS to a 48 volt 4000 watt with 60 Amp MPPT solar controller. http://www.aussiebatteries.com.au/solar/integrated-power-systems/giant-power-48v-4000w-integrated-power-system And I added 4 extra 300 watt panels giving me a total of 1800 watts. http://www.skylinesolar.com.au/wp-content/uploads/Suntech_300W.pdf So, I have a 4000 watt, 48 volt system with 1800 watts of solar and 125 Ah 48 volt battery bank. At this stage I have the system setup at my place of residence testing the system, waiting for the next trip to my block to install the system. Once I have the system installed I'll take some photos and post them up for you all to see. I do have a few questions about the battery bank and sizing issues etc which I would like some advise on before the final install. Let me know what you think. Its easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission! ............VK6MRG.............VK3MGR............ |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Looks good. The battery bank is small, but it should be OK for a site office and temporary residence, so long as you watch your watts. On over cast days watch your loads, avoid heaters like the kettle or toaster. My system started with 2.2kW of solar and a 48 volt 230Ah battery bank. Was told several times its too small, but I've never actually run out of power, so I think you can get away with a smaller battery bank if you can make a few sacrifices at night and on overcast days. At night I use the microwave, kettle, no problems, but things like a cloths dryer are out of the question. I live alone, which helps, but I have friends and relatives stay over and never had any issues. I use the usual stuff, PC, big tv, lights, water pump, etc. Recently added more panels, 3.8kW total now, and doubled the battery bank, just to give a little more margin in winter, but these upgrades were not needed. You can pick up 2nd hand solar panels for less than half the price of new, just check the voltage/cell count and general condition. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| VK6MRG Guru Joined: 08/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 347 |
Hi Glenn, For the moment the load will only be a modem, security camera system, and some radio gear. The only time that the load will increase to where it will be a problem is when we go down to stay for a while (normally only a few days to a week) then the fridge will be on, lights at night, kettle etc. Until I get the larger batteries I will just use the gen-set to top up the system of a night before going to bed. Of course, once I get the bigger batteries this will fix the issue. After I sort out the battery bank I'll get another 6 300 watt panels to add to the system. This will give me a total of 3600 watts on the array. As I have no north facing roof surface, just east / west and allowing for the de-rating factor the solar array will be under the 3000 watt maximum IPS MPPT controller rating. With the panels I have now are wired up in 3 series 2 parallel configuration, and when I get the extra panels it will be 3 series 4 parallel. Hoping that this picture will help explain the final setup after the solar expansion. 
At the moment I have only one string wired. Waiting on the last three panels to be delivered so I can setup and wire up the next string. Once I have all 12 panels up on the roof they will be wired so the west facing strings will be in parallel with each other and the same with the east facing strings. With the battery bank I was thinking that these would be enough for the foreseeable future. http://www.aussiebatteries.com.au/off-grid-solar/battery-banks/48v-280ah-4x280ah-agm-deepcycle-battery-bank These are the biggest (and Cheapest) that will fit into the cabinet the system is mounted in. What are your thoughts on this? Am I over engineering this setup? Its easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission! ............VK6MRG.............VK3MGR............ |
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Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
Give YHI Power PTY LTD a call for some battery prices, and even consider their 6 volt 400Ah cells. as they work out well priced. Sometimes it just works |
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| VK6MRG Guru Joined: 08/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 347 |
Thank you for that Downwind. I'll check them out. Its easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission! ............VK6MRG.............VK3MGR............ |
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yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
My comment would be that depending on you latitude and the pitch of the roof winter power production might be very disappointing. it should be OK in QLD or with a flatter roof, I am at 33 deg south in SA and tilting them up so they face NE in the morning makes a huge difference. the experimental system I done jumped from 4-6 kwh to 22 Kwh on a cloudy winter day when I tweaked the panels last year. will be interesting to see how you get on!  I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
You probably wont need the gen set to top up the batteries at night, I think your load will be OK. Besides you'll soon get to know your batteries and your power habits, and find a couple of small changes to how and when you use power will be all you need to do. Once you have been off grid for a while, you'll start to see the advantages, and wonder why you never did it earlier. For example, off grid power is much more reliable than grid power, no unexpected backouts. And no power bills, though off grid power isn't free, you still need to replace batteries every 5 to 10 years. My experience is off grid power is about 1/5 the cost of grid power. With your solar panel mounting, leave room to walk/craw between the panels. Between each row I have about 600mm, so I can get to each end of the panels. I would leave a walk way on the apex of the roof in your case. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| VK6MRG Guru Joined: 08/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 347 |
Hi Yahoo2, My block is in Western Australia and my Latitude is 33 degrees, 34 minutes south, so winter will be interesting for sure. But, with a combined total of 3600 watts of solar (not taking the de-rating factors into consideration. eg, east/west facing panels, only 22.5 degree pitch, temperature losses and cable losses etc.) I think that I will be fine for the most part. Once I have all the solar panels and the new battery bank, I think I will be set. I'm setting this system up for a few reasons. 1. I'm an electrician. And my retirement idea is to go into renewable energy systems for the local area. (as well as normal electrical contracting work). So I'm using this as a practice setup to show to prospective clients who may be interested in going solar/off grid. 2. I want to build a house either on my block or close by. And this will be also off grid and I'm going to use my shed as a sizing test run. It should give me an idea of what power requirements are required for the different appliances that we use. There will be a few differences with the new house (if and when it happens), some passive heating the cooling, north facing roof surface for maximum solar panel exposure as well as the normal "passive" and "low energy" systems. Its easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission! ............VK6MRG.............VK3MGR............ |
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| VK6MRG Guru Joined: 08/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 347 |
Thanks Glenn, I will be leaving a walkway on the south side as well as room to walk along the pitch of the roof. Once everything is sorted out with the mounting hardware I'll will be mounting a sprinkler system to the roof for fire protection along the west, south and middle along the pitch of the roof as I am close to a strip of bush which runs along the front (west side) of the property. This will be a very long process as it's a 20+ hour drive from where I live to my block! Things will only get done in fits and starts i'm afraid but Rome wasn't built in a day. If I can get a few weeks off work, and if the wife and kids let me I would only need a few days to get the 6 panels up and the off grid system installed, up and running. So fingers crossed. Its easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission! ............VK6MRG.............VK3MGR............ |
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| VK6MRG Guru Joined: 08/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 347 |
So this is the off grid system from Aussie batteries and solar. Details are at the start of this thread. Here is a few photos of the current setup. 
The other two batteries are on the bottom shelf just out of view. Once I have installed a power point under the switchboard I will mount an old windows tablet PC to the front of the upper door for on-site monitoring. I'm still trying to work out how I can have web access to the monitoring software but i'm sure I'll work something out. Its easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission! ............VK6MRG.............VK3MGR............ |
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| VK6MRG Guru Joined: 08/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 347 |
OK, I would like to upload my solar data from the inverter to PVoutput.org Has anyone else done this? And if so, what is required to do it? I'm thinking that I'll need a PC or something running all the time and software to talk directly to the inverter or use the inverter software to save to a log file and import it to another program that talks to PVoutput.org I don't really want to have a PC running 24/7. Maybe a Raspberry Pi or similar.... Any help would be appreciated. Its easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission! ............VK6MRG.............VK3MGR............ |
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| davef Guru Joined: 14/05/2006 Location: New ZealandPosts: 499 |
Do you have landline to your property? I am using a FriendlyARM mini2440 running Linux with PHP5, WiFi and a small webserver. This unit talks to a cheap Samsung smartphone operating as a hotspot. Each day I send myself a log file using Google's SMTP server. Currently, I am moving the "smarts" over to their new product a NanoPi. This board has WiFi built into it, so overall it is a cheap solution. And low current. I have mains on all the time, so keep the phone charged from that and run the mini2440 off the 24V battery via switch-mode 5V buck inverter. What format is the data in? Is it RS232, RJ45, USB or ? I assume you need to request the data from the inverter. I use Teensy USB boards to gather all my analogue and system status values. |
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| VK6MRG Guru Joined: 08/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 347 |
The IPS has USB and I think it has RS-485 as well. I'll need to check the manual when I get a chance. Everything I tried to find out on the Giant Power website very vague. The only thing that is mentioned is that the included software can display the data but doesn't say anything about being able to export the data on the fly. More reading and research required. Its easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission! ............VK6MRG.............VK3MGR............ |
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| VK6MRG Guru Joined: 08/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 347 |
So I have stumbled upon a YouTube person that is developing monitoring software along with another YouTube person for off grid solar. Justin Case here and Jeremy Ohara here. I think that Jeremy is the software guru from what I understand. Hopefully the software will be ready in the not too distant future and I'll be able to give it a crack. Its easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission! ............VK6MRG.............VK3MGR............ |
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| VK6MRG Guru Joined: 08/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 347 |
So I've mounted a GPO (General Purpose Outlet or power point) under the switch board, removed the cooling fan from the side of the enclosure (as it had very poor air flow caused by the slots on the side of the enclosure that it was mounted to), Turned the internal cooling fans over so that cool air blows up inside of the inverter and mounted my tablet PC to the front top door. 
I will remount the cooling fan along the side of the IPS so that it sucks the hotter air out from the top of the unit to assist the two internal cooling fans. 
My old windows 7 tablet PC (with cracked screen) mounted on the door for easy access when required. I have mounted a USB hub to the back of the door for a mouse and keyboard as the touch screen no longer works. I want to find and mount a fold-up shelf for the mouse and keyboard so they can be out of the way when not in use. I think that is it for the moment. Just a little update to show that the system is getting closer to being ready to install in the shed. Its easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission! ............VK6MRG.............VK3MGR............ |
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| VK6MRG Guru Joined: 08/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 347 |
So I've mounted a 240 Volt AC cooling fan to the top of the enclosure for when the system gets above 50 degrees C. This will be switched via a 48 Volt contactor in the switchboard. I just need to get the contactor and wire it up. I'm also looking at mounting an external fan on the side of the inverter to assist the internal fans. I may use an external fan speed controller that I made a few years ago so that the fan will alter it's speed with a rise in temperature, and when it's cool enough will shut down. 
Its easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission! ............VK6MRG.............VK3MGR............ |
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| VK6MRG Guru Joined: 08/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 347 |
I have mounted the cooling fan to the side of the IPS and added the 48V wiring ready for the contactor when it arrives next week. 
Another step closer..... Just an extra note. I forgot to mention that I have installed TeamViewer to my tablet PC to give me remote access to the PC and the remote monitoring software for the IPS and Battery Monitor logging software. I also have it installed on my office PC and my Android tablet and it all works very well. Its easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission! ............VK6MRG.............VK3MGR............ |
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| VK6MRG Guru Joined: 08/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 347 |
So, I have installed the system into the shed on my bush block. I will ad the few photos that I have taken . At the moment I have 6 300 watt suntech panels which are east facing and later in the year I will add another 6 300 watt panels on the west facing side of the roof. 
I have a ceiling fan, lights and a fridge in the shed and the system runs these loads with ease. Also enough capacity to run a vacuum cleaner or a kettle or even a small toaster oven. As expected the capacity of the battery bank is very limiting, however this will be rectified later in the year with the purchase of larger batteries. Overall I'm am very happy with the system. Its easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission! ............VK6MRG.............VK3MGR............ |
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Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
I have just ordered 2 Midnite Classic charge controllers as they only need a shunt and 1 inexpensive device called a Whizbang to give full remote monitoring and data logging. The software is free as is the online data logging, so you can easily see and program settings remotely. Also gives state of charge, another benefit is ground and arc fault protection is built in. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
watch the clamping zones on the panels ie you're outside the recommended. AS1170.2 requires clamps min 200mm from the edges of the roof = yours a fail. Dont run them in string of 3 as they will run at 75V+ in the sun = charge controller fails everything goes up in smoke perfectly OK to run them in pairs instead and Buck converter in the Charge controller needs to do less work = less use for the poorly vented enclosure and giant fan to band-aid that. Pity i missed your thread - the Victron gear costs peanuts more, Lithum would be 10x the cycle life of the batts you got. Keen to see how many "giants" you break in the coming couple of years. good luck! Luck favours the well prepared |
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