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Forum Index : Solar : finally, we now have this:
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poida Guru  Joined: 02/02/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1418 |
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-11-22/energy-safe-victoria-says-backyard-batteries-dangerous/104632276 $60K fine.. wronger than a phone book full of wrong phone numbers |
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| Godoh Guru Joined: 26/09/2020 Location: AustraliaPosts: 458 |
The battery bank in the photo did look dangerous. Anything dropped on the top of the terminals would cause a massive explosion. But I cannot see how they can fine someone for putting batteries together. If the battery voltage is below 120 volts DC then it is considered Extra Low Voltage in the AS3000 wiring rules. One does not need to be a licenced electrician to do wiring on ELV systems. Maybe the people are putting together high voltage battery banks. That would be dangerous. A bit more detail in the article would be good Pete |
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| Godoh Guru Joined: 26/09/2020 Location: AustraliaPosts: 458 |
This seems to be the relevant standard. Mostly about where the batteries can be put and safety https://www.erac.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Battery_Energy_Storage_System_02Feb2021.pdf Pete |
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| poida Guru Joined: 02/02/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1418 |
yeah, but this is "Our ABC". probs just took the press release and ran it. I love the mandatory sauce of Teh Crypto and crime. they forgot the "won't anyone please think of the children" angle too. good to know that if it's below 120V then it's OK. wronger than a phone book full of wrong phone numbers |
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| Godoh Guru Joined: 26/09/2020 Location: AustraliaPosts: 458 |
Extra Low Voltage is defined in the standards as 50 volts AC and 120 volts ripple free DC. So I would assume that a battery bank would constitute ripple free DC. I can't see how they can fine you for a battery bank under that voltage. Except if they point to safety matters or the miriad of other Australian Standards that are about for battery installations. I only have a 24 volt battery bank but they are in plywood boxes with vents in the top and bottom at the ends. They are also Valve Regulated lead acid batteries. I have latches on the boxes so that they can be locked too. But no one comes where who is likely to go poking their fingers in my battery boxes. Pete |
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Revlac Guru Joined: 31/12/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1022 |
There are many things wrong with that ABC news post....too numerous to bother mentioning. Are there any Electricians that work with DC electrical? most are only trained for AC equipment. I looks like another made up Regulation to justify there own existence. Cheers Aaron Off The Grid |
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| Godoh Guru Joined: 26/09/2020 Location: AustraliaPosts: 458 |
I reckon that most of the standards are there now because the government privatised Standards Australia a long time ago. So now they need to write new standards all the time to make money. When I was much younger there were not many electricians who understood low voltage DC at all. I saw plenty of off grid houses wired just the same as a grid house would have been wired. The outcome was ( before LED lighting) that one light was switched on all good, two lights on they both dimmed a bit, more than two lights on the dark ages came fast. They did not take voltage drop or cable sizes into account. Now with lots of solar panel installs, more sparkies are working with DC. But mostly medium voltage levels. Still low voltage is a mystery to some. Here is a link to an article that goes into just how difficult the standards are to interpret. MC sparky on Au standards Pete |
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phil99 Guru Joined: 11/02/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2135 |
Other than those certified for solar installation work, probably not many these days. Long, long ago I was a sparky when there was still some reticulated 200VDC in Melbourne CBD for lifts in old buildings. The first 2 years of trade school was all DC and included theory and prac. on all types of non-electronic DC motor and generator. When the State Electricity Commission was privatised the new distribution companies were given the power to set "safety" regulations beyond those in AS/NZS 3000. They have a vested interest in making it difficult to avoid buying their power. That said there is a place for regulations for the safe installation of large batteries. Doing cell volts and SG readings on 460V banks (200 cells in series) made me a bit nervous. All exposed terminals. The biggest one delivered 50kW for 12 hours on a load test. No aluminium ladders allowed in that room. |
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TassyJim Guru Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6097 |
A lot of industrial control equipment is (or was) 125V DC. In my case it was power station ans EHV substation control panels. We had battery banks for 50V and 125V in an assortment of AH capacity and chemical makeups. As Phil said, any work near them requires great care VK7JH MMedit MMBasic Help |
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| Godoh Guru Joined: 26/09/2020 Location: AustraliaPosts: 458 |
Many years ago my then father in law, told me a story of when he worked on submarines. He said that one of the men who was working on the battery bank on a sub, was crawling over wooden boards on the batteries to do maintenance. Unfortunately he was not careful and a spanner dropped out of his pocket onto the terminals of the battery. He said that the spanner vaporised and the man was killed. I have had a car battery explode in my face when it was gassing furiously. It was definitely not an experience I would like to repeat. I did see a bank of submarine batteries on charge when I worked at Garden Island Navy Dockyard. They were huge cells. Definitely not something I would want to short out. Still it seems over the top to go out and fine people massive amounts of money. Why not inspect battery banks and educate people. Give them a simple copy of plans to make their batteries safe. Pete |
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| Revlac Guru Joined: 31/12/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1022 |
There still isn't any local area electrician that advertise doing DC or Home Solar, plenty of other electricians, the one out here only works on industrial electrical won't touch house stuff, on the other hand there is solar installers and one of them will do stand alone kits but I doubt they would get involved in any DIY system when there business is to sell there own systems.  Long time ago there was 32v systems, battery banks were managed buy the owner, still have the old generator.  No, Absolutely not No way should an inspection be encouraged. Its starts out that way then there will be regular inspections then fees, then -------------I don't wont to give them any ideas so will leave that out-------------, well think of the worst that could happen and it would be worse than that, once laws get in you will never get rid of them in this country they only ever get more strict not less. The solar installations that have caused fire or damage (roof mounted disconnects high voltage grid tied battery) have been approved Grid Tie systems? not so much diy stuff I know you mean well and good intentions but the authority will just screw it all up, they always do. we know There are guidelines for installations so we should stick with that. "a simple copy of plans to make their batteries safe" Totally agree,  this sort of thing should be made available from who ever you buy the batteries off, they should be able help out with what the user wants.Cheers Aaron Off The Grid |
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Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1344 |
When I got those solar panels for the upgrade I contacted quite a few local solar installers and NOT one was interested in giving me a quote to install the panels After I said I wanted 2 in series then parallel. So I just did it myself, got all the gear from the local electrical supplier who gave me a huge discount due to the amount of stuff I wanted. Now on exploding batteries, one of my mates worked as a forklift mechanic and told me what happened to him the week before. He was servicing some 48 volt electric forklifts in a workshop when a worker dropped a shifter on the battery bridging the terminals well a 48 volt 1,000AH forklift battery exploded taking out 3 other electric forklift batteries and sulphuric acid filled the air in the workshop. My mate said he ran to his truck and got his respirator on quick as where the other workers just walked around looking at the damage. When he got home his clothes literally just fell off and after showering he was ok safety wise. |
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