Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 11:57am 18 Dec 2021
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Must be because of Christmas, I have had a rush on people wanting to buy panels. They are all asking what voltage they are ( advertising 250W house panels) so obviously want them for camping. Sold 6 mostly individually this week for that purpose.
Got one guy that's been messaging about daily for the best part of a week. First was are they 12V. no, read the goddam ad. Next thing was can they charge a 12V battery? Yes, explained that. Wanted to know size.... as in the ad. Where I was..... as in the ad. Like did you even see the Ad or did you use " The force" to know I had some panels?
Now this evenings question seems a real Doozy and one that's plain got me confused because either I'm missing something or this guy is the most electrically inept pelican I have ever come across in my life. The question....
"Are the two cords coming from panel pos+ and neg- ? "
Well at least he didn't say plus and Minus which are terms that really grate my gears but nice of him to put the symbols in case I didn't know what pos and neg was.... UGGGHHH!
I fully realise that most people don't know much about electricity but he may as well asked if they made electricity if the sun shone on them. My first reaction was to reply , "Nah, the leads coming out are for Milk and fine wine. "
Like what the hell? Unless this guy is asking something I don't get and I'm the moron for it going over my head, I don't think this guy should be changing the AA batteries in a Torch without supervision. Is it just me or....??
He does not seem like someone I want to sell anything to because I can see him coming back and whinging or annoying me for information endlessly. The question has me lost for a reply pretty much.... other than to ask if he's effing serious?
Witty and appropriate replies to the question welcomed. Not worried about loosing this guys business more than happy to blow him off. Not that desperate and I learned a LOOOONG time ago and the hard way, you don't want every customer that comes along, some you are FAR better off without.
Pretty sure this is going to apply with this fella.
noneyabussiness Guru Joined: 31/07/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512
Posted: 01:54pm 18 Dec 2021
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
lol.. reply no they negitive and positive... other way round I think it works !!
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 11:45am 19 Dec 2021
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Haven't replied but he wants to buy 2 panels now. Should I or should I not sell them to him?
Godoh Guru Joined: 26/09/2020 Location: AustraliaPosts: 453
Posted: 09:04pm 19 Dec 2021
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Davo, I used to get lots of folk who knew I was an electrician, running crazy schemes past me. Mostly perpetual motion ideas. I had a rule of my own that I would explain to them how energy works and that there is no way their idea would work. I would explain about losses, windage and friction, copper losses etc. Then that was it. One good explanation was all they got. If you sell the guy the panels , maybe give him a mud map drawing to take with him of what he needs to do and leave it at that. Some people are not trainable. Some have ears and actually listen. Pete
noneyabussiness Guru Joined: 31/07/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512
Posted: 09:44pm 19 Dec 2021
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Godoh, you are more patient than I... not that I'm a rocket scientist, but i used to try to explain stuff, but learnt its a 1 in 50 situation, 49 just want to tell them, their idea is great, the other will actually listen....then if anything goes wrong (which it can even if you know what you are doing) your blamed...
after a while you just give up on it... its sad i know...
Dave, maybe sell em to old mate, but a mud map like Godoh said, with a disclaimer/ warranty attached saying you kill yourself/others, damage property etc.. not helpful Dave's fault, cause if anything goes wrong you know he won't take responsibility for it, it will be your fault...
Best Wishes with it ...I think it works !!
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 12:31am 20 Dec 2021
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
I NEVER cease to be amazed in this day and age how many crackpot scam BS things I see on YT that are so ridiculous that anyone in this day and age cannot see them for what they are. Instead they get MILLIONS of hits in a few months and people are applauding the idea as if the world is now saved.
The second amazement is how when anyone says it's fake and says why, they are berated and called nay sayers and what ever else for telling the truth that people just don't want to hear.
More than some likely deserved.
This is a good suggestion and point. I might just message him and say don't mean to be rude but do you have any idea what to do with these things? I don't want you having problems then coming back and trying to put it on me.
All the people I have delt with so far have been great and even if they weren't sure, they at least had an idea which was correct. Being asked if the "cords" coming out were pos and neg just stunned me. I can't even figure how someone that knew nothing and looked online how to do a setup would even ask that? What else could be shown or spoken of?
Guy last week told me he wanted one for his camper and asked if I thought it would be enough to supply his fridge and battery and gave me the specs. I asked if he normally parked his camper under a tree for the shade? He said yes and I pointed out that would severely limit the panels output because they were meant for full sun. I suggested he put the panel on some decent length and gauge cable so he could sit the thing in the sun and put a hinge with a rod and some chain so he could free stand it and even move it round during the day. Said he thought that was a great Idea and could he get 2 panels. One to hard mount which would charge the battery when towing and another for as I suggested when he was camping. I thought that was a better idea still.
Guy that came last week had a mini sub station in the back of his ute. Said he had just put it together himself and didn't know anything about electricity much but worked it out from vids and things he saw on the net. Damn fine job in layout and features.
Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9303
Posted: 05:45am 20 Dec 2021
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
The best two things I have come across so far in my career are:
1) Guy rings up and says: "Hi, yeah, my TV just went bang and a whole lot of smoke and sparks came out of the back of it. Should I switch it off?"
I advised him that - yes, he should unplug it, and call the fire department right now - don't wait. A smoldering TV set could EASILY set fire to your house.
But wow - did he REALLY need to ring an electronics technician(me) to have me tell him that?! (rhetorical)
2) Guy buys a HDD from me, then complains that his system won't boot anymore. He had taken the blank, formatted HDD I sold him, and replaced the only drive in his machine - the system drive - with the blank drive I sold him, and expected the machine to boot. When it didn't, he complained that the drive I sold him was faulty. I mean - Jesus......
Anyone with a LITTLE knowledge is a dangerous thing.Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 05:40am 21 Dec 2021
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Guy got back to me asking when he could pick them Up? I asked him if he knew what he was doing with them because the question about the pos and neg leads was disturbing and if he blew any ship up, don't put it on me.
I said if he had a controller bring it with him and I'd show him how to wire it up. He got a bit narky and told me he knew all about 12 V but just hadn't worked with panels before. OK, I offered help, you don't need it, suits me.
I was tempted ask WTF he thought Dc from panels was any different but I resisted and said well long as you understand, when you want to come and get them? I can't figure how if he knows anything about 12v electrical what he thought the leads from panels would be?
Somewhat unsurprisingly he's made 3 different times/ reschedules in less than 24 Hours. No worries, Put a couple in the ute, when he messages me I'll drive down to meet him.
Might be a nice guy with poor communication?
Godoh Guru Joined: 26/09/2020 Location: AustraliaPosts: 453
Posted: 06:50am 21 Dec 2021
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Good idea to take the panels to meet him. For some strange reason I got a feeling of mistrust when you said he became snarky and that he keeps rescheduling the meeting. I like to trust people but some just can't be trusted. I guess my levels of warning have risen since living in an area where robberies happen far too often. Out of the way, one way road, no near neighbours and only 45 minutes to large town. Seems that crooks see that as a welcome mat. So yep great that you are meeting him somewhere other than your place. Good luck Pete
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 09:54am 21 Dec 2021
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Complete and utter smart arse know it all turd.
And that's being nice to the guy.
Started lecturing me about how to set panels up like he is going to do for his caravan... which made no sense at all but anyway.
Looks at the panels in the back of the ute and straight away I knew..... " Oh, I didn't realise they were that big". I put the dimensions in the ad. Yeah I read that but didn't think about what that was.....
He told me several time he knows all about 12V Systems.... Are you an auto sparky? No I'm a Mechanic but I drive trucks now..... UGGGHH!
Then he started telling me how he was going to build an alternator driven directly by a motor that would produce more power than what it used. Give me a goddam break!!
I tried to explain that was physically impossible because every time you convert energy you loose some plus there are efficiency losses in the Motor, the alternator the electrics..... Nope, he's not going to belt drive them he's going to direct couple them. OFFS! Look it up on the internet, You'll see. Told him straight out, seen plenty of con men trying to convince the ignorant and stupid that works but it never will. He missed the insult.
Then wasn't sure 2 panels were going to fit on his van so he just took one and will get back to me.... Please dear lord almighty DON'T Next was if it would fit the thing fits in his car. I think my under breath comment of " It effing better!" didn't go unnoticed and he fit it in even though not sure how he fit behind the wheel after pushing the seat so far forward.
He does not want to wire the car to the van because if he has battery's and a solar panel that will combine with the voltage from the alternator in the car and give 24V and that will be bad. better to have independent systems. Oh is that the time?? Let me the F out of here before I kill you! got my ( half) money and left.
Why didn't I listen to that little voice and just blow the guy off. The frustration was not worth the exercise. Don't mind helping people but I don't take kindly to being lectured by idiots.
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 10:15am 21 Dec 2021
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
For the most part since I found the other Turd some months back that had driven all the way up the driveway and to the shed round the back then was up in the top yard moving panels around I have stored up there, I have been more wary. I think the dog bailing him up finished any potential ideas of a midnight visit. Since then with one exception I have been meeting people in a carpark near the war memorial. It's marked on phone and GPS maps and haven't had any trouble with people going to the wrong spot. Guy that came here was in the air force and my judgement there was spot on. Very nice young gentleman.
Seems when you are meeting someone and say message me 10 min before you get there and I'll leave home then, They tend to be on time or at very least are there waiting for you. Unlike when they are meeting you at home and say I'll be there at 3, turn up at 4:30 and plain tell you they stopped at maccas for a feed on the way... and letting you know they would be late never occurred.
I have used that when negotiating on price for things.... " I won't muck you round, I will let you know when I am leaving and will be there on time or early if that suits you. " People seem happy to deal with people like that if they have sold anything before and will give a better price.
This guy was no threat, far and away too damn stupid and full of himself. None the less, very glad he does not know where I live because now I can ignore him if he gets back to me and that's it. He would otherwise be the type just to turn up on the doorstep at some ungodly hour and see no problem at all in that.
Oh, I figured out why the reschedules..... His GF works in the Nursing home just behind where I said to meet. She got her shifts changed around and so did he and he wanted to get the panels when he dropped her off to work. Poor girl. Probably a nice young lady that thinks this arse clown is the best she can do in life.
You CAN do better sweetheart, OH so much better!
noneyabussiness Guru Joined: 31/07/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512
Posted: 10:24am 21 Dec 2021
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
I remember once a " mate " tried to tell me he knew a bloke that had a box about the size of a window air conditioner that ran his whole house ... was very insistent, said he'd seen it with his own eyes blah blah... told him not possible unless it was just the inverter, the battery storage or grid connection cables were hidden etc..some people just cannot be told...
I live by a rule, never argue with a idiot, only brings you down to their level and they will beat you with experience....I think it works !!
Murphy's friend Guru Joined: 04/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 648
Posted: 10:50am 21 Dec 2021
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Thanks for that, I will adapt it too.
We had a chap here on this forum, turned up about two years ago, posted silly comments to every thread he came across, making it very obvious in every post of his that he was just an attention seeking fool using this forum as if it was some stupid social media site. I had enough of his nonsense after a while and told him if he does not understand very basic information about electricity he is just wasting the time of those who were replying to the same question asked over and over.
Got an insulting PM for that....
Thankfully he's (hopefully) dropped off the forum now.
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 03:01am 22 Dec 2021
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
I am reminded of the adage, " It's easier to fool someone than convince them they have been fooled".
Most poignant snippet of wisdom ever and one I have seen proven 110% correct more times than I would like. I have shown people documented and repeated facts and they will still argue and make excuses. It's incredible. It's not even foolish people either. I have known some otherwise very smart people that have been the same. I think it's a human nature thing in a lot of cases.
Electrical I think is THE most maligned subject and often used to fool people. I mean lets face it, people Buy batteries every day thinking they are going to save money when a very easy calculation shows the complete opposite to be true. And that's a Mainstream thing. Forget about all the scams.
I have commented on a load of those on YT and explained why they can't work and you get a hundred abusive replies about what are my qualifications, putting someone down trying to have a go ( Yeah, at your wallet!) This could change the world and ..... Uggh! Don't bother any more.
I look at a lot of these scams now as the price of education for the ignorant. Maybe next time they will have the smarts to look something up and see why it can't work instead of just championing blindly the cause they want to believe.
Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.
Print this post
Yes, explained that. 
