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brucedownunder2 Guru Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548
Posted: 12:07am 03 Jun 2018
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Hi, I'm about to install 8`second hand panels on my existing verandah overhead open framework (used to be for a grapevine,but the possums sh*tte all over everything during fruit season).
Question is, can I install my solar panel switches ,which are usually next to the solar panels, can I install them on the wall under the panels ,which will make it easier for maintenance people to switch off without climbing on to the overhead framing ,like chest height ,standing on the verandah.
Also ,can I use "Aussie-duct" ducting ,instead of conduit for the solar cables ?
Thanks
BruceBushboy
windlight Guru Joined: 03/03/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 331
Posted: 05:33am 03 Jun 2018
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For you Bruce anything. Breakers are to protect the cable from overload and provide a convenient point of isolation, operative word "convenient" generally in site of what is being isolated, IMHO optional "I like this place and willingly could waste my time in it" - (Act II, Scene IV).
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 05:40am 03 Jun 2018
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It was made law to have them on the roof here for fire safety, but that was scrapped as the crappy breakers were starting fires.
You would be better off checking local regulations in case you have an insurance issue.There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
George65 Guru Joined: 18/09/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 308
Posted: 01:03pm 03 Jun 2018
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The fact you are installing used panels has a real good chance of making them illegal now thanks to the changing regulations that are more about keeping an industry profitable that the safety excuse given. The fact YOU are installing them makes it illegal in the eyes of those that polish a seat with their arses.
That being the case, there is probably little point in worrying about legalities when the whole system is illegal to start with.
Not trying to sound like a bitch or some pain in the arse do gooder like the forum I just came from is full of, ( not mentioning WP) my own setup is exactly the same. Whole thing is non compliant and my concern factor is Zero.
Unless the setup did cause an issue and despite what many think, they can't knock back an insurance claim unless it were the cause of the problem. If I have an " Oh my god, the Chips" incident, no way they can point to the panels and say not paying.
If the panels cause the fire, different thing.
That being the case, firstly I take the risk knowingly and Willingly and secondly, The way I have them set up has more protection built in than the regs require anyway. I also make sure as much as I can that it's all set up so if something did happen, it's as least risky as possible. Panels Burning on my shed roof is not likely to actually do much except make a mess of the roof. The wiring is routed in such a way there is nothing flammable around it. The AC side has breakers going through breakers before it even gets to the fuse box with .... a breaker.
One inverter specs a 32A fuse for something that couldnm't even do 20A. It has a 15A breaker and hasn't tripped that yet. Why the hell would you fuse something at double what it's capeable of? I want the lowest breaker possible so the margin of error is at it's very least.
I have my switches where I can get to them. The idea of having to go get a ladder and climb on the roof to shut something down in an emergency is a moronic one. My wife and daughter know where the switches are to shut everything down and they can get to them easily at ground level. So can anyone else and they are clearly marked.
The isolators also flies in the face of the fact I have the panels wired with heavy enough cable that they could be shorted at their highest ever generation and nothing going to come within a bulls roar of catching fire. I actually tested it by shorting them out and left them there for an hour and nothing.
I have NEVER understood the concept of putting a coating on wires that will burn. Yeah I know it's supposed to be self extinguishing and non sustainable and all that but still, it WILL catch fire and burn. Surely these days thee is a better alternative to plastic coatings?
brucedownunder2 Guru Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548
Posted: 09:47pm 03 Jun 2018
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Thanks George and Madness ,plus my Ol mate Alan up there in the Daintree.
You all hit the mark , do what 60 years ,in my case, of experience tells you .
My breakers ,even though I don,t think they are necessary,are right on the wall outside the kitchen ,on my deck .How simple and sensible can you get .
I'm running my cables in aussieduct with the clipable cover ,should be just the trick for alterations, Etc.
Have a nice week,
BruceBushboy
renewableMark Guru Joined: 09/12/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1678
Posted: 07:39am 05 Jun 2018
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I contacted the Victorian regulators re this exact issue. If it was above 120v dc then they required a disconnect at the panels, if it was below 120v dc the it could be on the wall below (in my case).
The CEC or clean energy council have guidelines for installs, which cover installs that have rebates etc.
That is actually different to local state electrical regulations which is what we need to go by. I don't give two stuffs what the cec say as long as I'm ok with energysafe vic I don't care.
BTW if you did need to fit one at the panels, there is nothing stopping you from fitting another one at a more accessible location.Edited by renewableMark 2018-06-06Cheers Caveman Mark Off grid eastern Melb
George65 Guru Joined: 18/09/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 308
Posted: 02:24am 06 Jun 2018
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If you have too much time on your hands and like to bore yourself stupid, a read through the voluminous regs is amusing. There have been so many changes and updates, some parts of them contradict others. Then as pointed out, other vested interests have their own specifications which contradict the Australian regs.
It's a bloody dogs breakfast. Like pool fences. Whats allowed in one place isn't in another.
I can see no practical reason to have a disconnect at the panels. The wiring coming down should be enough to hold the current in a short. That being the case, what good is switching off the panels at the roof rather than the ground? IF there is a short at the panels, turning the output off won't help because... it's a short. Given the cable is the right gauge, turning them off 9ft down the cable I can't see is any different.
From what I read, Putting isolators on the panels has caused a LOT of problems. I believe one of the fire departments wanted this changed to put the isolators back at ground level.
Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.
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