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vk4kij
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Joined: 04/05/2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 9

Posted: 07:31am 25 May 2010

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Hi,

I am totally confused by what is available for off-grid solar systems, as far as financial assistance is concerned.

Installers have only made it worse, with saying both yes and no, maybe I have been asking the wrong questions.

I have just bought the house with a solar system that is too small for my needs and wish to expand/upgrade it.

Currently it is 8x 80W panels producing around 1.5kW on a good day, it is about 10 years old and has been neglected.

Thanks.

Ian.

VK4AYQ
Guru

Joined: 02/12/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2539

Posted: 01:37pm 25 May 2010

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Hi VK4KIJ

The last time I checked the status of assistance it was the same as a grid connect subsidy on the condition that power wasn't available for connection to the residence and it could be that you are still in the hunt for a subsidy if no subsidy has been issued on the original installation, so apply and let them say yes or no but don't be to free with information as it confuses them.

My friend close to my place had a solar system before the subsidy and when the subsidy came in he had a user friendly installer upgrade the system on the subsidy.

Best of luck

Bob

Foolin Around

KarlJ

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Joined: 19/05/2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 1178

Posted: 01:41pm 25 May 2010

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Seriously, my opinion is for off grid with existing infrastructure is to
sit down and work out what you have vs what you need FIRST.

640W for 1.5KW yield is indeed low should be getting double that.

SO what are its specifics 12V/24V

what condition are the batt's in, what sort of inverter is being used and what kind of loads do you want it to run.

Solar Hot water is No1 on my list and piece of cake DIY.
average hot water runs to ~5-10KW /day which by any other means is a killer.

a combi solution is viable for a full off grid ie Wind and Solar, provided there is wind.

Short of the wind and being small I'd forget the rebates as more than likely more trouble than its worth at this level.

I'd be going for (assuming you have some space and clear sky) a solar tracker/ concentrator Valeri Borodinov is the contact STS-4 is the product.

uses 400W of panels for 600W output and being tracked makes it good for ~4Kw/day at about $4K or less makes $/W delivered very reasonable.

the list of options here at this point is only limited by the budget.

Luck favours the well prepared

vk4kij
Newbie

Joined: 04/05/2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 9

Posted: 04:32am 26 May 2010

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There was a subsidy on the system around 10 years ago.

I have been talking to a couple of local installers, but have received anything firm out of them yet, which has been some time now. Basically they seem too busy elsewhere.

Ian.

vk4kij
Newbie

Joined: 04/05/2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 9

Posted: 04:54am 26 May 2010

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The property actually has 2 solar systems, one for the main house, and one for the cottage. I was really concentrating on the house system only, but I will give the details for both as I am thinking it would be better to have only one. The panels for both systems are on the house roof.

I was getting to the point of just buying some panels and putting them up myself, but the more I find out about things the more I realise I don't know.

House:
The system is 24V.
8x 80W BP panels (getting around 18A in full sun).
Batteries are 4x Enersun SSR-875.
Inverter is a Selectronic WM1700-24.
Regulator is a Plasmatronic PL40.

Cottage:
Still 24V.
6x 50W panels (getting around 5A in full sun).
Batteries are 4x 225A, about 2 year old.
Inverter is a no name brand (I have the box it came in and it hasn't a brand name on it), 1800W modified sine wave.
Regulator is a Plasmatronic PCM16-24.

Both hot water systems are LPG.

There is no usable wind.

The house is at the bottom of a valley, sun does not hit the panels to around 9:30, and leaves them around 1:30. I have been trying to address the shade from the trees which cause this, when I started there was only 3 hours of sun, not sure how much more I can get.

There is a small running creek, so hydro may be an option.

I am not after a real lot of power, enough to run the fridge (currently there isn't), TV/DVD, laptop, lights and whatever. I worked it out to about 3kW/day out of the inverter.

Ian.

VK4AYQ
Guru

Joined: 02/12/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2539

Posted: 06:47am 26 May 2010

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Hi Ian

Sounds like you need to do some heavy Gardening, Your System is much the same as we used to install years ago and it would work basics in the home.

I would suggest you go for some more panels and mount them on a tracker to maximize the sunlight you do get, six or eight 200 watt 24v panels is easy to track and should give you 6kw on top of what you have now and more in summer, is the cottage being used? It may be possible to connect both systems together via an equalizer wire if not to far apart. As long as the batteries are compatible it will give you a bit more capacity.
It sounds like the panels are a bit tired but still going a good glass cleaner to get the grot of the glass will help a bit also.

The laptop could be run direct off the batteries with suitable regulator and you can get Led lights that save heaps of power cfl globes, I personally changed the fridge for a new one as my old one used 6kw per day new one uses 1400 watts a day, better to save it than make it.

The hydro may be an option if you can get enough head to run a pelton wheel.

What is a ham doing in the bottom of a valley?

All the best

Bob

Foolin Around

vk4kij
Newbie

Joined: 04/05/2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 9

Posted: 07:50am 26 May 2010

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Hi Bob

I was trying to think of how to connect both systems after finding out the inverter for the cottage uses 0.92A at idle. The batteries for both systems would be no more than 10m apart. The cottage is rented out, and power is only used for lights and a laptop. First weekend I cleaned the panels, talk about black.

I have already replaced the incandescent lights in the house with cfl, the house lights are 24vdc, the cottage lights are 240vac and were already cfl. Funny enough the newer fridge I moved in with used 1.7kW/day and found my 30 year old fridge, which I could not give away, used 1.2kW/day, so that's what's plugged in now.

I have around 1 to 1.5m of head, but the creek is running through nearly solid rock where the drop is and some distance either way. Might take a bit of doing.

Well I've currently given up being a ham. I found that life in town would probably be okay, if not for neighbours. The new house had to suit the xyl and the daughter.

Ian.

windlight
Guru

Joined: 03/03/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 331

Posted: 12:01am 27 May 2010

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It is my understanding the RAPS has ceased, WA gov site http://www.clean.energy.wa.gov.au/pages/raps.asp

Hope I'm wrong.

allan

"I like this place and willingly could waste my time in it" - (Act II, Scene IV).

VK4AYQ
Guru

Joined: 02/12/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2539

Posted: 01:02am 27 May 2010

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Hi Ian

More gardening required and the tracker, I am building one the size you need later this year enough to track eight 200 watt panels I got a 24" linear actuator from ebay about $70 that will do the job.

You are close enough for a equalized wire providing the batteries are compatible, I also would suggest a desulphator as the system would have been using the batteries beyond their comfort zone.

The creek sounds OK for an undershot wheel not a lot of power but if the flow is OK should do 200 watts 24/7 and a little is better than nothing.

I had the same thing with the fridge an old one was better than a newer one with auto defrost fans and seal heater, now have gone to a new high efficiency two door 1400 watts a day and got rid of the freezer as well.

I understand the city thing that's why I am in the bush too.
42 acres airstrip and workshop for fooling around.

All the best

Bob

Foolin Around

vk4kij
Newbie

Joined: 04/05/2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 9

Posted: 07:37am 01 Jun 2010

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Hi Allan,

That's what I thought, but an installer told me otherwise, but I am still waiting for the quote. Actually I am waiting for quotes from more than one installer.

Hi Bob,

Much more gardening required, that's for sure.

I found some CEEG 170w panels at $3.15/w. Price seems good, panel quality ?, but still it would get me out of the dark :-)

The creek will be the longer term project, 200w/hr seems great to me.

I am not real frequent on here, low power, hah, and the satellite connection is starting to make dial up seem quick, I get pings of 1 to 10 seconds (not a mis-type), very unusable at times.

Ian.

VK4AYQ
Guru

Joined: 02/12/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2539

Posted: 01:24pm 01 Jun 2010

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Hi Ian

I have a sample of 200 watt 24v coming at $2.50 watt keep in touch on that.

I have the same problem with setalight connection but its all there is at the moment.
If you have a hill nearby to put a radio 3g connection on and a wifi down link with a yagi pointed to your qth you may do better.

All the best

Bob

Foolin Around

vk4kij
Newbie

Joined: 04/05/2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 9

Posted: 10:28pm 01 Jun 2010

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Hi Bob,

$2.50/w sounds good.

I had thoughts about a small tower on the local hill on the property, I have yet to investigate the site.

Ian.

VK4AYQ
Guru

Joined: 02/12/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2539

Posted: 12:52am 02 Jun 2010

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Hi Ian

I am going for a 3g network later this year using telstra wi fi modem remote located with a yagi for max performance a small solar cell power unit 10 watt cell and 12 volt regulator to gel cell with a boosted down link 14 db yagi we tried my friends modem in the location and it worked with four bars sigal on a 5 db whip so should be good on yagi. That should give me enough signal for VOIP.

All the best

Bob

Foolin Around

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