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Forum Index : Solar : solar rebate (confusion)
| Author | Message | ||||
| brucedownunder2 Guru  Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
Hi Crew,, I just spoke to an installer doing a neighbour's 1kw install. I sort of made the casual remake that we don't save very much.... He told me he has a 1.8 Kw system and expects to save around $300 per quarter... Now thats $3.33 per day average. So thats very good. Now with a 1Kw (mine) system ,I maybe would average $1.70 per day . My average use is around $2.30 per day. So 60 cents per day for power is very good. He also said that you should try and use as little as possible during the sunlight hours .. Don't know what he means ,but something about the smart meter ..and the feed into the grid versus the feed from the grid. He reckons here in Queensland we get 50 cents per KW when we feed into the grid.??? I didn't think it was that much ??? Bruce Bushboy |
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| petanque don Senior Member  Joined: 02/08/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 212 |
My 1 Kw system on a sunny day recently made 4Kw hrs for the day In early April it was making 6Kw hrs for the day. The worst day I have noticed was 0.2Kw hrs for the day I feed back between half to a third of this. I think if you do the sums finically you would get a better return paying off your mortgage if you have one. Would you get some sort of non monetary benefit? This is a personal thing. It is likely that over a year Brisbane would have more sunshine than Adelaide. Being an installer he may be biased |
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| micke Newbie  Joined: 25/10/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 15 |
The feed in tarrif in Queensland is the Solar Bonus Scheme. This is a net metered scheme which means you are paid for the surplus electricity generated from the PV system that is exported to the grid after the household load is met. The surplus electricity is generated any time that the power output from the PV system is greater than the power the household is using. The surplus electricity is metered with the smart meter and paid at the rate of 44c/kWh. An easy way to maximise your solar bonus is to reduce electricity consumption when the sun is shining the brightest. Mick |
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| brucedownunder2 Guru Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
Yes Mick . Thats the way he explained it .. So, if you go to work and nobody is at home during the sunshine hours, the smart meter reads all the watts going to the grid ,,this becomes a 44c per Kw credit . Then when you get home ,,you use watts at ,say,18 cents per kw .. So, you could make money .. but I won't be holding my breath ... I'm going to install my 6 panels on a rotator ,but don't tell anybody. Bruce. Bushboy |
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| petanque don Senior Member Joined: 02/08/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 212 |
If you have a fridge this will turn on and off during the day and affect the amount put back into the grid. Also many houses have appliances that are on standby eg TV’s & cordless phones that have a small but continuous load. |
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| RossW Guru Joined: 25/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 495 |
So, putting in a bank of batteries and an inverter/charger, soaking up a charge, then putting it all back into the grid is roughly a 300% return on investment. Even if you lose 10% due to battery, inverter and charger efficiencies, it's still an interesting prospect. If you could push only 2.5 KW back into the grid, it's about a buck an hour. If you could manage it for half the time, thats $12/day. $360/month. If you spent $10K on batteries and inverter it's 27 months before you start to make a profit on your investment. It doesn't matter if your batteries are small and you can only deliver 2.5KW for an hour, if it's NETT.... I wonder who will do the sums and come up with a system that'll pay for itself in a year and return enough to actually live on :) |
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GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
The legislation in SA states PV energy is eligible for the peak export rate. Something to do with peak solar production coinciding with peak grid demand. I doubt the authorities would respond favourably to users who persued this avenue. It is hard enough getting credits paid for legitimate solar grid connected exports. I am still waiting for my credit $ payments, and now TRU has withdrawn premiums for exported power now that more people have signed up with them. Will have to probably check the fine print. New investers may need to get a written contract before signing up to export significant amounts of power. Gordon. become more energy aware |
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| micke Newbie Joined: 25/10/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 15 |
Hi RossW I work for Ergon Energy and we are currently trialling RedFlow's Power+BOS ZB system (www.redflow.com.au) as part of the solar cites project on Magnetic Island. The Power+BOS is pallet sized container with a 5kW SMA inverter/charger and a 25kWhr battery bank, they are programmed to recharge their batteries during off peak periods and then export to the grid during times of peak load. So what you suggest is currently being looked into as part of the federal government's smart metering trial. You may... in the future be able to charge your battery bank using night rate off peak power (8c kWhr) and export to grid in times of peak demand(6am to 9am and 6pm to 9pm) for significantly more per kWhr (30-50c kWhr). But the current legislation in Queensland only allows grid connected PV systems to attract the 44c export rate. Mick |
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| Feral Newbie Joined: 03/12/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 39 |
Micke "But the current legislation in Queensland only allows grid connected PV systems to attract the 44c export rate." What Act of Parliament and what section of the Act are you referring to in your statement ? Feral |
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| micke Newbie Joined: 25/10/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 15 |
Feral The Queensland Electricty Act 1994 Reprint 8A Division 5 Section 44A. Mick |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
This is interresting stuff. There's always been a little confusion on the rebate, so its good to get the facts from someone who works for Ergon. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| Feral Newbie Joined: 03/12/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 39 |
Micke, Well done, but did this so called Act or Legislation of the Qld Parliament ever receive Royal Assent after the Bill was passed, as required by our Commonwealth Constitution ? If it did not, its only soft law, not law with force and they can implement and change the interpretation of this PUBLIC POLICY as they like to suit the Govt Policy of the day. Have a read of section 2 and tell me how and when this so called law commenced, you wont find section 2 as they have failed to publish the commencement provisions, they just leave out anything they dont like us to know about. I would not be relying on any of this legislative crap. The fact is that the Corporation of the STATE OF QUEENSLAND is reguistered with the United States Securities & Exchange Commission, STATE OF QUEENSLAND AUSTRALIA: 0001244818 Mailing Address C/O QUEENSLAND TREASURY CORP GPO BOX 1096 BRISBAINE QUEENSLAND C3 4001 Business Address C/O QUEENSLAND TREASURY CORP GPO BOX 1096 BRISBAINE QUEENSLAND C3 4001 01161738424600 Corporations cant make LAW with force only Public Policy so the so called Act or Legislation you refer to has never commenced as an Act of the Qld Parliament with the force of law and they will never allow anybody to make money out of a policy that provides for their subserdised solar panels on your roof and their smart meters to prop up their failing power supply. It would appear that the definition of a qualifying generator is the key to this scamm. Where does that put the 0ne KW solar panels when they state " qualifying generators with sufficient capacity to produce a total of 8 megawatts or more of solar power " 44A Additional condition to allow credit for electricity produced by photovoltaic generators (1) It is also a condition of a distribution authority that the distribution entity— (a) allow, as far as technically and economically practicable, a small customer to connect a qualifying generator to its supply network; and (b) credit against the charges payable by the small customer, for customer connection services provided to the small customer in a relevant supply period, the amount of $0.44 per kilowatt hour for electricity that is, at any instant in the relevant supply period— (i) being produced by the qualifying generator; and (ii) being supplied to the network; and (iii) in excess of the amount of electricity being used by the small customer, not including electricity supplied through a circuit controlled by the distribution entity; and Example of a circuit controlled by the distribution entity— a remotely switched circuit used for off-peak supply of hot water (c) give the regulator a report, within 28 days after 30 June and 31 December each year, stating— (i) the number of small customers who have connected a qualifying generator to the network under paragraph (a); and (ii) the amount of electricity supplied to the network in the previous 6 month period for which credit was given under paragraph (b); and (iii) the total generation capacity of all qualifying generators connected to the network. (2) The regulator must review this section to decide whether its provisions remain appropriate, after the first of the following to happen— (a) the passing of 10 years after the commencement of this section; (b) qualifying generators with sufficient capacity to produce a total of 8 megawatts or more of solar power are connected to the supply networks of 1 or more distribution entities under subsection (1)(a). |
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| micke Newbie Joined: 25/10/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 15 |
Feral The Electricity Act 1994 regulates how Ergon operates, thats all I know I am no law buff, just an electrician. "It would appear that the definition of a qualifying generator is the key to this scamm. Where does that put the 0ne KW solar panels when they state " qualifying generators with sufficient capacity to produce a total of 8 megawatts or more of solar power " " 44A(2)(b) as you have quoted refers to one of the conditions to initiate the regulator to review this section. In other words once 8000, one kW systems have been connected to ergon and energex networks or condition (a) after 10 years has passed, that is July 1 2018. The way electricity prices are rising we will probably be paying 50c per kWhr by then anyway. But until there is a review I'll keep exporting excess power to the grid and collect the 44c per kWhr and if the solar bonus scheme comes to end, thats all right as my system has already paid for itself. Mick |
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AMUN-RA Senior Member Joined: 10/03/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 144 |
hey mick this is mick im getting 11kwh per day at the moment in town no matter what they say it works for me. Every day the sun shines & gravity sucks= free energy. |
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| brucedownunder2 Guru Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
Hi Amun-Ra ,, thanks for the feedback ,,,I'm with a 1Kw system ,chinese no brand panels and over the last 8 days getting full sun and 3 .06 Kw per day .. What do you reckon?? I'm sure I'll get much better when I transfer them to the tracker. I reckon I get full sun 11 am to 2 pm ,,shaded by a wattle tree and the street pole for early morning and late afternoon the sun sort of heads around to the north west and sort of is side on to the panels .. this could all change in summer ,,but I think the tracker is the better way to go. But considering ,,,they have hooked me up to the phase that does not use any power,( 4 Kw last quarter) ,,, so maybe I'm exporting nearly all my solar ????. Any body plus Gordon any clues on this ??. ( he reckons I'm on a winner)... Bruce. Bushboy |
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| micke Newbie Joined: 25/10/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 15 |
Hi Bruce "But considering ,,,they have hooked me up to the phase that does not use any power,( 4 Kw last quarter) ,,, so maybe I'm exporting nearly all my solar ????. Any body plus Gordon any clues on this ??. ( he reckons I'm on a winner)..." I am assuming from this statement that you have 2 or 3 phases of tarrif 11 connected at your place on seperate single phase kWhr meters. If this is the case then energex will most likely remove the 2 or 3, single phase meters that you have and install a 3 phase import/export meter. This means the export power from the PV will have to be greater than the combined import powers before you recieve any credit. Take a look at the Energex electricity connection & metering manual. http://www.energex.com.au/service_providers/electricity_conn ection_metering_manual.html Mick |
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| phred01 Newbie Joined: 16/09/2009 Location: Posts: 10 |
Cost of a solar tracker is as much as the cost of 6 panels. In the long term is better to have more panels. No need to maintain moving parts! |
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